Originally Posted by Bzzt

Good points but I think in the end it comes down to costs. It would be more expensive to substantially grow pdt than just use the large infrastructure and pilot base already at envoy. They may want to punish us but they'll only do it if their numbers make sense.

Originally Posted by rickt86

My fear is the company needs to right this mess fairly soon. We are bleeding pilots like crazy and recruiting very few. That size and infrastructure won't be so attractive here soon. Psa and pdt combined could eventually reach 1500 pilots, we are trending that direction.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

The old Eagle flow-thru was negotiated in a matter of weeks. If Delta and United see pilots making lateral moves to Envoy threatening their feed and their competitiveness, they'll act rapidly to develop their own flow-thru's. Pilots at their respective carriers won't shoot craps starting at the bottom with Parker, especially considering his last attempted gutting at Envoy when they can get the same promise from their carriers. For non-wholly owned carriers it will be tied to a long-term feed contract.

I'm sure many at APA might desire such a plan (and apparently some don't) and Parker might want it, but I think it will fail if they try it and depend on it at least as far as believing it will cause a mass migration to Envoy.

Originally Posted by Maverick

its all just luck, and knowing the right person, not just some person.

If having a great resume was the key, why am I still at eagle. 11,000 hrs, 2 types, check airman, never failed any ride ever, letters from 2 current AA check airman, upper management, 3 line pilots and I cant get an interview at any major, and yes I have letters from check airman at Delta and was previously hired by Northwest but got class cancelled. Same at US. I know eventually I'll get called but it can be very frustrating to see kids who poured coffee for 3 months get hired in their mid 20's while I have served a 15 yr "internship".

Originally Posted by Feng

I see a lot of people whining about people getting hired because of connections as if they're born with it. Networking is hard work and time consuming with no guarantee at the end. Same thing with internships. But everyone that complains knows these are some of the things that COULD get one ahead and last I checked these opportunities are available to everyone. Maybe you should have applied while in college.

There's no need to begrudge these people.

Originally Posted by rickt86

The catch to this system, even if employed at all three majors is it will force everyone into those three regionals. Many will have to stArt all over. Further is screws the folks at charter, small cargo, etc. corporate, Miami air, blah blah blah.

They think the 10,000 pilot pool for the majors is now a pool to prop up the regionals. Further they want to evolve the industry into a cradle to grave model.

Originally Posted by Feng

It seems like your resume was precisely why you were hired at NWA and US before they cancelled your classes. Sounds like bad luck is the reason you're still at Eagle. So you interviewed at 2/4 majors and was hired by both, it's a nice accomplishment, just bad timing.

I see a lot of people whining about people getting hired because of connections as if they're born with it. Networking is hard work and time consuming with no guarantee at the end. Same thing with internships. But everyone that complains knows these are some of the things that COULD get one ahead and last I checked these opportunities are available to everyone. Maybe you should have applied while in college.

There's no need to begrudge these people.

Originally Posted by Mason32

AA will continue reducing envoy frequency as larger RJs slowly come online. They will also drop the lowest yield markets. They will - within a year - make envoy the ONLY way to AA with a bigger flow program. They will buy other regionals for staffing more than equipment.

Once envoy becomes the only way to AA it will drive recruiting way up as pilots from places like Mesa, TSA, GoJets etc... Race to get hired at envoy. They can continue applying everywhere else, and be secure in their eventual flow to AA. Eventually, AAG will develop an ab-initio program to take them from zero to regional hero, with flow to AA. Finally, once all those pilots dry up, they will eventually bring the flying back in house. Delta will act similarly, but is far behind AAG in getting it set up. I told people for the past few years that the only jobs worth having will be with wholly owned regionals. Soon, you'll all see why.

I've encouraged our guys to get ahead of this and number all the envoy guys. The company controls hiring. They will make envoy the only way to AA, and that will in essence put them in seniority order, and we can't stop it. By numbering them all, we then demand a representation vote. Kick ALPA out, bring them into APA and begin a new contract. Some hard liners here at APA still can't see that we need to do this now before our leverage is gone. If the company does make all of our hiring from envoy, we will lose that leverage. The company is going to use our job as a hiring tool for envoy; while we collect no dues for an entire pilot group that us essentially stapled to our list.

Places like Mesa will eventually become dead end jobs as each legacy after legacy copies this model to attract pilots. As they default on their contracts, the legacies will poach them at giveaway prices.

Knowing how they think, I'd put RAH and AW high on the list for potential acquisition.