More great news at Envoy!
09-08-2014, 04:21 AM
#132
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 91
You keep looking at this from a veiw point of "in a perfect world" in an imperfect situation. A contract carrier pilot group can say no to consessions all they want. But as long as a mainline carrier gets a rate from that contract carrier management that they can accept, then how much the pilots get paid is of no concern to the mainline carrier. So when XJT (or whoever) voted no, there was absolutely no chance that XJT management would shut down XJT. But the wholly owned contract has a direct effect on the mainline bottom line. There is real teeth to: "if you say no we will take that into consideration when your leases come due." What is happening to Envoy is a perfect example of that. They were screwed the moment they voted no, regardless of how PSA voted afterward.
09-08-2014, 04:41 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 179
Dragon, are you saying that all wholly owneds will automatically be shut down if they ever vote no? The company loves how easily you fall for their fear tactics.
Their is a stark divide in our philosophy:
you appear to support voting YES to every single concession the company proposes, every time.
I and many others like me, on the other hand, believe this profession has been degraded far too much already and we should have ZERO CONCESSIONS, PERIOD.
Who agrees with me?
Their is a stark divide in our philosophy:
you appear to support voting YES to every single concession the company proposes, every time.
I and many others like me, on the other hand, believe this profession has been degraded far too much already and we should have ZERO CONCESSIONS, PERIOD.
Who agrees with me?
09-08-2014, 04:51 AM
#134
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 91
Look at Envoy. No they won't be shut down by Tuesday. But they are losing their most valuable asset. What possition will they be in 2 years? PSA has 49 a/c, only 14 of which are valuable. Where will PSA be in 2018 if they say no? You think they will run an airline with 14 a/c? Same with PDT, airframes are timing out. What future will they have? You say they can't shut down 3 airlines over 3-5 years. I see 8 other airlines just waiting to take the flying, and there are others that aren't in the system yet that could make it more than 8. Parker has options, the wholly owneds don't.
09-08-2014, 04:59 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,139
Originally Posted by dragonbravo
Look at Envoy. No they won't be shut down by Tuesday. But they are losing their most valuable asset. What possition will they be in 2 years? PSA has 49 a/c, only 14 of which are valuable. Where will PSA be in 2018 if they say no? You think they will run an airline with 14 a/c? Same with PDT, airframes are timing out. What future will they have? You say they can't shut down 3 airlines over 3-5 years. I see 8 other airlines just waiting to take the flying, and there are others that aren't in the system yet that could make it more than 8. Parker has options, the wholly owneds don't.
09-08-2014, 05:27 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by dragonbravo
Where do you get that from? AAG is the one buying the airplanes.
There is value in mainline having wholly owned, so they will never get rid of their wholly owned. If all three of us would of said no then they would of had to change their strategy. They never would put all their flying at contract airlines, this would be disastrous to them just look at United. Again we the pilots are our own worst enemies. Eagle/envoy had this vision and set the tone, but unfortunately pdt and psa have no clue.
This was our chance to change the industry with so many things in our favor and we might never have this kind of leverage Agin and a few were as greedy as the cooperate giants to throw this opportunity away.
Thank you PSA and PDT for degrading our profession and proving to management that we are just stupid pilots not deserving to be called professional.
09-08-2014, 05:38 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by dragonbravo
Where do you get that from? AAG is the one buying the airplanes.
09-08-2014, 05:47 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by seafeye
Wasn't envoy for sale? If their is value in wholly ownes then why did AA try so hard to get rid of you?
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