Originally Posted by Da Magic

All emotions aside, as an Envoy CA I think when comparing PSA and Envoy it's apples and oranges. PSA was targeted by management. They saw an opportunity to get 60% of 400 pilots to change the regional industry!

This is where ALPA let Envoy down. The two pilot groups have nothing to do with each other but are faced with playing with the same deck of cards.

Originally Posted by weekendflyer

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Originally Posted by wags3539


When are we going to stop viewing regionals as a stepping stone? There should be absolutely no reason one cannot make this a career choice, but we need to come together to make that happen.

Thank you Envoy, Republic, and Express jet for making the effort. PSA, you guys deserve the contract you're stuck with. A serious question to PSA guys, do you even get COLA raises at the top of the pay scale, or is that it? If the last raise you get as an FO stops at 4 years, at $30 whatever it is, you're going to have a hell of a time paying bills. I hear mom and dad's basement is nice this time of year.

If I see Envoy/Expressjet/Republic guys on an overnight the beer is on me.




well upgrade is 2 years here and dropping fast… no one should be stuck at 4 year pay scale unless you wanna be

Originally Posted by weekendflyer

well upgrade is 2 years here and dropping fast… no one should be stuck at 4 year pay scale unless you wanna be

Originally Posted by wags3539

The problem with this viewpoint is nothing in this industry remains constant. It may be less than 2 years now, but it was also 2 years when I was hired at my airline 7 years ago. Needless to say, I didn't upgrade in 2 years. I didn't want to be on year 7 pay scale as an FO either, but thank god that was in the contract. That, along with the fact the the FO pay is 60% of captain pay to prevent the scenario of a captain being paid $100 while a senior FO is making $35

Originally Posted by Waitingformins

You shouldn't mock them. PSA was offered a "better" deal to vote on than Express jet, Republic, or Envoy. There is no reason to be so proud of yourself for doing nothing except going to work, flying and going home. PSA could have negotiated better terms in the last agreement, you cannot believe the company actually offered their "final" terms.

Originally Posted by tom11011

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You have to really think hard about why management, of all things they could go after, would choose to cap FO pay at 4 years. They know what is coming.

In my opinion, with the exception of Envoy who will likely shutter, there will be consolidation followed by shrinkage in the regional airlines. This shrinkage will cause down grades of captains who already are beyond year 4 longevity.

It's just my theory, but you have to ask yourself why are company's like AA pushing so hard for this with their wholly owneds?

Originally Posted by wags3539

Thank you Envoy, Republic, and Express jet for making the effort. PSA, you guys deserve the contract you're stuck with. A serious question to PSA guys, do you even get COLA raises at the top of the pay scale, or is that it? If the last raise you get as an FO stops at 4 years, at $30 whatever it is, you're going to have a hell of a time paying bills. I hear mom and dad's basement is nice this time of year.

Originally Posted by BackintheLPA

Obviously you have no idea how SAP and critical coverage pay work here. It is realistic for a second year FO to make 50K/yr. There are many capts making 10-12k per month with 14+ days off. LCAs are making more. The only thing missing was a viable fleet of aircraft. Envoy didn't get offered anything close to what we have. They got a stripped down concessionary version of what we have.

Anyone with half a brain could make good money here.