Can you please detail to me what concessions we gave for it? Or perhaps tell me which other pilot group we stabbed in the back to get it? Of course not, because we didn't. It's not my fault you don't understand the basics of the collective bargaining process. The company isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts, it's to save their own asses. If the financial incentives aren't enough to meet their staffing metrics, they'll raise it later on! Funny how basic logic works. By turning down free money, all you've done is screw the bottom half of your list. We aren't part of your coitus this time.

 

Let's not forget how many steps Endeavor went through to reach their current pay and bonus setup. It's not like they threw that at them on day one when the pilot shortage issue came up. There were even some questioning if Endeavor would continue to exist prior to that.

 

Hiring a union buster to destroy the morale of your employees while you dismantle a successful 3,000+ pilot airline with excellent performance metrics isn't wrong? That sure is a nice morally grey world you live in there, maybe even a bit hypoxic. No, there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with treating our own employees like the enemy...

We saw the problem three years ago. But heaven forbid you listen to your front line employees "that don't have that big of impact on the profitability of the company."

That's what happens when you poison the relationship with your employees so badly they no longer hold any loyalty to the company. It's too bad you can't understand that.

 

You ARE the problem. Your post reeks of elitism: you think you are smarter than the "dumb" pilots you control. Somehow you are privy to information we are not that makes your decisions and back pedals justified.

Bottom line: you had zero foresight to see what was obvious to all of us "dumb" pilots: it would have been better for the pilots, the company, and the shareholders to not piddle over a few cents per seat mile back then for what is now going to cost you, the pilots, and shareholders much more.

Keep playing your tag line of how FOs going to an LCC is crazy because they will be at AA in just a few short years. It just reaffirms how out of touch with your people you are. There is zero guarantee that this will happen. You(the moron pilot playing manager) have proven that you will do everything you can to stop attrition. Flow is the biggest attrition and like many times in the past, when push comes to shove, you'll screw over anyone so you can have yours.

One need only look at the marketing lies at PSA to know this: PSA STILL has a tag line of "upgrade faster at PSA", all the while the brakes are already on. Exactly what I said was obvious happened: in order for the music to be good for some, it has to be bad for many.

I know the same 6 year Eagle FO who left for B6. I even wrote him a letter of rec and helped him. When I met him as a young Eagle FO, he was a happy person. After years of beat downs from morons like yourself, he was not himself - dejected. In less than 6 months at b6, he has a line, great overnights, and in about 6 months will make more than a 10 year Eagle CA. He'll be a CA well before any Charlie Bucket here even gets to AA(assuming your "promise" actually happens).

But yeah hey stay at envoy and let turds like CR700 wilson/neider lie to you some more - you know - for your own good.

 

Several people have asked a question about ENY new hire slots and where they were going. Rumors are that new hires may start getting the 175 in the next few months, probably coinciding with the somewhat officially rumored 50 slot vacancy bid happening in a few days.

 

Yes, I understand that great opportunities arise from time to time, but it's mind blowing to see a super qualified Envoy pilot leave for a LCC when an AA job is just a few short years away.[/QUOTE]

Because the lack of trust?
Or is that to hard for the "forward" thinkers of our glorious airline to comprehend?

 

Great start with beginning the retention program. Here's some more items they can work on.

-Industry worst schedules
-Under guarantee and 11 day off non commutable trips
-Continual contract violations
-Flowing is restricted to 30 and not 50% of AA new hires
-Continual paycomp issues
-General hostile work environment toward pilots

A retention program is a decent first step down a long road of recovery for a management who has done much damage. A sobering look at the list above is a place to start. The union has put out a similar list also and it has fallen on deaf ears so far. There is much work to do and I believe the pilots of envoy will follow a leader that pivots from the recent combative tone our management has begun again in 2016.

 

Exactly. I went to one of their "pizza" parties. Sat in the back. Watched several young guys legitimately bring up these holes in their Swiss cheese. All that happened was disdain from management for not just drinking the koolaid and thanking the "management" team for being so fantastic. No real answers, just anger and misdirection.

The truth of the matter is posted above by Buzz. What management turds like CR700 want to do is "misdirect" away from the truth of day to day life at envoy by only showing a completely un-guaranteed carrot, like the flow, to cover it up. You can have the "hope" of flow but the reality is we have the worst day to day life of any period in the history of this company, and much worse than other regionals.

This place is a joke. Throwing in a bit of long overdue extra cash to the FOs is a bribe, a desperate bribe. Coming up is a 50 captain vacancy bid. It'll be ran down the APC promenade as glorious. The truth is, this will give upgrades to people who have been here for 8-9 years by the time they see 4 stripes. What do they get? Years of reserve and still living the bullet points Buzz put above, and STILL make less than if they were on second year pay at a place like JetBlue.....but that's a lateral move says CR700.

 

It's amusing to listen to you talk about "constantly shifting 30,000 foot views" in an effort to justify the sudden and frequent let downs that are thrown at Envoy pilots to deflect responsibility for negative developments, yet at the same time trumpet specifics and certainties when it comes to the dispensement of attractive but questionable carrots when it serves the needs of those other then the pilots. Let's face it, the emotional yo-yo existence that is fostered upon Envoy pilots is a chosen tactic even if many of them bear the responsibility for falling for it again and again.

As for the "mind blowing" feeling watching "super qualified" pilots leave Envoy, you do realize that for many, the opinion is that anyone who does choose to stay at Envoy and flow is usually seen as a toothless knuckle-dragger with a closet full of skeletons and is flowing because they couldn't get hired elsewhere. Perhaps in the future, many of the flows to AA can have annual barbecues to compare skeletons ?

 

This latest band-aid will likely fail insofar as bring in substantial numbers to Envoy or curbing significant attrition. It's simply the next step in kicking the can. Since it only affects F/O's, few who get an offer for Airbus class at an LCC are going to pass it up and virtually none were moving laterally to a regional anyway. All this did was weaken the pilots future leverage by resetting the crisis point to a more advantageous time for management in the distant future, so in that respect, management scored another touchdown.

Of course, when the pilots defensive line is too busy checking out the cheerleaders and their game plan and play book is known by all, it's easy to run right by them time and again.