New Envoy Information
03-30-2016, 08:33 AM
#2121
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 38
I need to get one thing straight, I understand everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has different reasons when choosing a regional. But, to completely bash the flow makes no sense to me. Yes, in the past it has shown that it is not always the best way to land a mainline job, but it still is a guaranteed job. There's nothing stopping you from applying elsewhere when waiting on your number to flow. I'm not trying to sell the flow in saying that's the only reason why you should choose a regional, there are other obvious reasons as to why someone would go elsewhere. But, in my opinion every regional has their pros and cons, having a flow is something great to fall back on. So the flow doesn't work, you're still in the same situation as the guys at the other regionals without a flow, difference being you still have that upper hand with the potential that your number might eventually get called.
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03-30-2016, 08:40 AM
#2122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by highflyer1980
I understand that. But the guy is already a captain. So the grandfather clause, to me, wouldn't apply. Hence, 4 year pay.
I think he needs to pick up more OT. That may be the answer.
I think he needs to pick up more OT. That may be the answer.
03-30-2016, 09:16 AM
#2123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by V1Rotate95
I need to get one thing straight, I understand everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has different reasons when choosing a regional. But, to completely bash the flow makes no sense to me. Yes, in the past it has shown that it is not always the best way to land a mainline job, but it still is a guaranteed job. There's nothing stopping you from applying elsewhere when waiting on your number to flow. I'm not trying to sell the flow in saying that's the only reason why you should choose a regional, there are other obvious reasons as to why someone would go elsewhere. But, in my opinion every regional has their pros and cons, having a flow is something great to fall back on. So the flow doesn't work, you're still in the same situation as the guys at the other regionals without a flow, difference being you still have that upper hand with the potential that your number might eventually get called.
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I think most B* about the flow cause they were told they were going to flow 10+ years ago and basically have been told it's right around the corner for a decade now. I can see how that would get aggravating. Only being at eny a few years and is it frustrating to still be on rsv? Of course. But living in base and making the best of the situation is all anyone can do at any airline. Major or regional.
03-30-2016, 09:40 AM
#2124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by ag386
I know you've been there a long time PilotCrusader. You seem to have a handle on what's truly happening there. I'll post things of a similar nature and immediately get jumped on by these pro Envoy kids. I've left for a LCC. It just works for me and I happen to believe that as the pilot shortage increases, Envoy will find itself in a bind and now needing everyone they can get which effectively stops the flow. It seems you are on the same page.
Is the cheerleading you see here indicative of what you see on the line now? I just can't imagine buying into the company BS like the Envoy pack on here seems to.
Is the cheerleading you see here indicative of what you see on the line now? I just can't imagine buying into the company BS like the Envoy pack on here seems to.
And to answer your question, it's not a matter of "buying company BS", but that most of us look at the flow with some skepticism. As you can remember, we've been through a lot. What seems to be clear now is that the trend is reversing. Some pilots on the line see that and that buys management a bit more leeway when they say they're going to honor it. So far they've made more of an effort than the old management team would have done in a lifetime. I still don't like them, but who actually likes their boss?
03-30-2016, 09:51 AM
#2125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
The few non-management types that have posted on here are absolutely not representative of the pilot group at all. Some of them are well known self preservationists.
The pilot group as a whole is generally still disgruntled. The super senior guys could care less, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The guys soon to flow see the light at the end of the tunnel, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The average FO I fly with is looking for a way out rather than wait for the flow, and hates and distrusts the company for what they have done.
It's pretty much "I hate this place and will do as little as possible". You can see that mentality in the gate agents, the ground workers, and even middle management. Everyone does just enough not to get fired. The product has gone down the tubes.
But somehow we still dupe a few individuals every month into this amazing flow! I say dupe because no one discusses how long they will be crew scheduling a ***** in reserve, or how few days off per month they will be getting.
The pilot group as a whole is generally still disgruntled. The super senior guys could care less, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The guys soon to flow see the light at the end of the tunnel, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The average FO I fly with is looking for a way out rather than wait for the flow, and hates and distrusts the company for what they have done.
It's pretty much "I hate this place and will do as little as possible". You can see that mentality in the gate agents, the ground workers, and even middle management. Everyone does just enough not to get fired. The product has gone down the tubes.
But somehow we still dupe a few individuals every month into this amazing flow! I say dupe because no one discusses how long they will be crew scheduling a ***** in reserve, or how few days off per month they will be getting.
As far as days off go, what you say sounds a lot like the common sentiment from commuters. And yes, we can go on and on about how there are so many commuters these days, but the fact is that living in base changes everything...even at Envoy. It's the same at most regionals.
03-30-2016, 11:36 AM
#2126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by RyanP
The guy I just flew with (previously a CA) wasn't capped. He was topped out FO pay, but he downgraded on a displacement bid. I asked.
Oh I see. That would make sense if he was displaced.
03-30-2016, 11:38 AM
#2127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by Jersdawg
I'm not sure how it works, I would assume you're right and he goes back to 4th year pay. I took a quick peek at the contract and couldn't find anything. My post was referring more to the FOs who didn't want to upgrade.
Oh ok. That makes sense too. Misunderstood.
03-31-2016, 04:16 AM
#2130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Is that in the contract or one of those "rug" things the company can pull at will? I honestly cannot remember.
For all pilots hired after DOS, the First Officer pay scale in Appendix A will be capped at four years of service (i.e., such pilots cannot progress past longevity pay step 4 for First Officers in Appendix A). First Officers who are on the Envoy master seniority list on DOS will be eligible to continue to move past step 4 in the First Officer pay scale in Appendix A each year unless the First Officer declines an upgrade to Captain in his own domicile. If the First Officer
declines the upgrade, he will be frozen at his current pay step (at or above step 4) on the date he declines the upgrade. First Officers who are capped at any pay step continue to accrue longevity for purposes of determining where they enter the Captain pay scales when they upgrade.
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