hawk21

Wish Envoy would up their first year FO pay to be competitive with the other hourly rates out there. When do retention bonuses kick in and how much can one reasonably expect to make in addition with those?

RyanP

Only people already on property get the retention bonuses. New hires just get the signing bonus.

1st year pay is effectively raised with the sign on bonus. Works out to about +$5.50/hr for the $5,000 bonus or +$16.60/hr with the $15,000 bonus for former 121 pilots.

So 1st year works out to be about
$31.50/hr
or up to
$42.60/hr for former 121 new hires.

Not great, but it's better than the posted $26/hr.

PilotCrusader

That's not going to happen. Maybe if they are absolutely forced to follow suit of others starting it.


These imbeciles just spent a ton of money and ego on getting "The cost structure needed to make the WO's competitive"(Chug-A-Doug Parker 2015).


Even though the cost of that battle was losing over 1200 pilots to other regionals, LCCs, and majors. Even though they now have to spend a fortune on deceptive recruiting efforts and all that initial training. Even though they think all this is offset by lower total pilot payroll, it isn't! They have to pay all these bonuses to even have a hope of getting people in the door because, gee!, the promise of a flow just isn't getting it done!


But still, their precious egos hold onto "but we still have the low cost contract!". To an extent they are right. If the music stops tomorrow, what does envoy have to offer? An industry losing contract, a flow that would have stopped, a God awful quality of life, and no bonuses.

Do you think the music can't stop? Ask the people flowing to AA right now that have been here for 16 years, or longer.

highflyer1980

To me that would be crazy because then you would be capped at 4 year pay, right? I think he should ride it out, but at the same time don't want to see him declare bankruptcy and lose his family over this. Also, would the retention kick in?

Jersdawg

FOs are capped at their current pay scale if it is year 4 or later (if they bypass upgrade in their domicile). So (for example) if the FO is DFW based and on 7th year pay and bypasses a DFW upgrade, they'll stay there.

Remember, any FO bypassing upgrade right now is already on step 8 pay - that's topped out FO pay anyway.

ag386

I know you've been there a long time PilotCrusader. You seem to have a handle on what's truly happening there. I'll post things of a similar nature and immediately get jumped on by these pro Envoy kids. I've left for a LCC. It just works for me and I happen to believe that as the pilot shortage increases, Envoy will find itself in a bind and now needing everyone they can get which effectively stops the flow. It seems you are on the same page.

Is the cheerleading you see here indicative of what you see on the line now? I just can't imagine buying into the company BS like the Envoy pack on here seems to.

PilotCrusader

The few non-management types that have posted on here are absolutely not representative of the pilot group at all. Some of them are well known self preservationists.
The pilot group as a whole is generally still disgruntled. The super senior guys could care less, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The guys soon to flow see the light at the end of the tunnel, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The average FO I fly with is looking for a way out rather than wait for the flow, and hates and distrusts the company for what they have done.

It's pretty much "I hate this place and will do as little as possible". You can see that mentality in the gate agents, the ground workers, and even middle management. Everyone does just enough not to get fired. The product has gone down the tubes.

But somehow we still dupe a few individuals every month into this amazing flow! I say dupe because no one discusses how long they will be crew scheduling a ***** in reserve, or how few days off per month they will be getting.

sammysuperjet

Here comes the Envoy haters again!

highflyer1980

I understand that. But the guy is already a captain. So the grandfather clause, to me, wouldn't apply. Hence, 4 year pay.

I think he needs to pick up more OT. That may be the answer.

Jersdawg

I'm not sure how it works, I would assume you're right and he goes back to 4th year pay. I took a quick peek at the contract and couldn't find anything. My post was referring more to the FOs who didn't want to upgrade.