New Envoy Information
04-15-2016, 10:01 AM
#2311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by Shiner
They've got it wrong. They won't upgrade sooner because they're on the 175.
However, what they were probably excited about is moving up quickly in relative seniority. If they can staff the 175 with newhires, they won't need to displace current FO's over to it. Newhires would then hold lines, weekends off, good vacations, while current FO's stuck on the 145 wait for the upgrade with longer reserve and worse schedules.
However, what they were probably excited about is moving up quickly in relative seniority. If they can staff the 175 with newhires, they won't need to displace current FO's over to it. Newhires would then hold lines, weekends off, good vacations, while current FO's stuck on the 145 wait for the upgrade with longer reserve and worse schedules.
New hires on the 175 will have a lot better QOL a lot sooner due to rapid relative seniority movement on the 175 fleet, since our current FO's can't bid it. It is really good for a new hire, sucks for our current pilots who won't move as fast on the other fleets.
04-15-2016, 11:01 AM
#2315
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Yep. This is a used car salesman right here. Cares nothing about anyone except himself. He uses the word "FACT" in sentences where everyone should see there cannot be fact.
We got 8 guys(was 9 but one got smart and took off). Most of the rest are guys that are timebuilding for a year, per the reccomendation of their end game airline.
Working for a major airline, making 6 figures, with a big boy quality of life instead of indentured servititude here are NOT the same thing. Not even close. All the idiot is doing is showing his cards: more and more FOs are widely bailing rather than believe lie after lie.
We got 8 guys(was 9 but one got smart and took off). Most of the rest are guys that are timebuilding for a year, per the reccomendation of their end game airline.
Working for a major airline, making 6 figures, with a big boy quality of life instead of indentured servititude here are NOT the same thing. Not even close. All the idiot is doing is showing his cards: more and more FOs are widely bailing rather than believe lie after lie.
I asked him why and he named off a litany of things, all negative. Some people will always be negative and I spent some time with him trying to show how much he had to lose over his career by comparing all the benefits he had by staying here.
My point was essentially, you have no more than 2 to 3 years absolute max before flowing and you are throwing an AA career away for Spirit? Spirit's pay is horrible and you would then just be another applicant off the street begging to get hired at any legacy. And what have you accomplished? You are basically at the Mesa of LCCs.
It blows my mind but again, there will always be people like yourself who see nothing but the negative in anything here and refuse to adjust your attitude. If I had to guess, you are probably some old turboprop driver who got hired at Chapparal or something like that and lucked out when Eagle bought your company. You're probably a lifer here because your resume would go directly to the round file if you were actually trying to get hired here today.
04-15-2016, 11:02 AM
#2316
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot
Soooo in 2 years if all goes to plan it'll be a 4 yr upgrade?
04-15-2016, 11:05 AM
#2317
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by RyanP
In 2 years we certainly shouldn't have any involuntary 8yr FO's anymore.
In 2 years we will have lost around 500-550 more CA's due to flow and attrition. (Being conservative). Say only 100 more flow later this year. Only 300 flow next year, not 360. Only 75 flow in the first 4 months of 2018. Numbers could be quite a bit higher if the actual projected amount flow. Plus 3 to 4 a month of Captains are consistantly leaving to other places. So thats another 70-80 Ca's gone over the next 2 years. Not to mention senior FO's leaving as well over that time period.
The next big vacancy award after this 10 upgrades, should jump to 2010 hires for upgrade. They were claiming 110 more upgrades this year. Now today they just announced 3 more aircraft coming back. Thats 15 more CA slots than previously planned now.
2010 will go quick through upgrades, 2011 will take a while, then it will jump to 2013 because there is only 8 people in 2012. After that there is not many pilots at all on the list. In 2 years from now 2014 guys should be getting CA upgrades. After them, there is not a lot of pilots to go through at all for someone hired today. We have 28 new hires for April. Now we need to maintain 20+/month new hires. Once people start to realize things are changing here, and they are, we will hopefully be able to do that. They might need to throw more money at the FO's in the future to get them and hopefully they do.
# of FO's each year to get through for upgrade:
2010-103
2011-293
2012-8
2013-72
2014-64
2015-110
2016-72
In 2 years we will have lost around 500-550 more CA's due to flow and attrition. (Being conservative). Say only 100 more flow later this year. Only 300 flow next year, not 360. Only 75 flow in the first 4 months of 2018. Numbers could be quite a bit higher if the actual projected amount flow. Plus 3 to 4 a month of Captains are consistantly leaving to other places. So thats another 70-80 Ca's gone over the next 2 years. Not to mention senior FO's leaving as well over that time period.
The next big vacancy award after this 10 upgrades, should jump to 2010 hires for upgrade. They were claiming 110 more upgrades this year. Now today they just announced 3 more aircraft coming back. Thats 15 more CA slots than previously planned now.
2010 will go quick through upgrades, 2011 will take a while, then it will jump to 2013 because there is only 8 people in 2012. After that there is not many pilots at all on the list. In 2 years from now 2014 guys should be getting CA upgrades. After them, there is not a lot of pilots to go through at all for someone hired today. We have 28 new hires for April. Now we need to maintain 20+/month new hires. Once people start to realize things are changing here, and they are, we will hopefully be able to do that. They might need to throw more money at the FO's in the future to get them and hopefully they do.
# of FO's each year to get through for upgrade:
2010-103
2011-293
2012-8
2013-72
2014-64
2015-110
2016-72
04-15-2016, 11:17 AM
#2318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by cr700
This got my attention recently because I flew with a 5 year FO who was leaving for Spirit.
I asked him why and he named off a litany of things, all negative. Some people will always be negative and I spent some time with him trying to show how much he had to lose over his career by comparing all the benefits he had by staying here.
My point was essentially, you have no more than 2 to 3 years absolute max before flowing and you are throwing an AA career away for Spirit? Spirit's pay is horrible and you would then just be another applicant off the street begging to get hired at any legacy. And what have you accomplished? You are basically at the Mesa of LCCs.
It blows my mind but again, there will always be people like yourself who see nothing but the negative in anything here and refuse to adjust your attitude. If I had to guess, you are probably some old turboprop driver who got hired at Chapparal or something like that and lucked out when Eagle bought your company. You're probably a lifer here because your resume would go directly to the round file if you were actually trying to get hired here today.
I asked him why and he named off a litany of things, all negative. Some people will always be negative and I spent some time with him trying to show how much he had to lose over his career by comparing all the benefits he had by staying here.
My point was essentially, you have no more than 2 to 3 years absolute max before flowing and you are throwing an AA career away for Spirit? Spirit's pay is horrible and you would then just be another applicant off the street begging to get hired at any legacy. And what have you accomplished? You are basically at the Mesa of LCCs.
It blows my mind but again, there will always be people like yourself who see nothing but the negative in anything here and refuse to adjust your attitude. If I had to guess, you are probably some old turboprop driver who got hired at Chapparal or something like that and lucked out when Eagle bought your company. You're probably a lifer here because your resume would go directly to the round file if you were actually trying to get hired here today.
Frontier is another story, leaving for there with more than 5 years seniority here is just dumb unless you live in one of their bases. Their FO pay is horrid for an Airbus. You basically HAVE to upgrade there quick or you are screwed. It would take me over 10 years just to get back to where my pay is now if the upgrade train came to a screeching halt (which could easily happen with these rapidly changing LCC's). Plus their contract negotiations will likely be dragged out for YEARS, 4-5 more years easily. Why wouldn't they with that cheap labor and still getting all the new hires they want?
04-15-2016, 11:25 AM
#2319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by cr700
Spot on analysis. I just think it's way too conservative. With the total aircraft count we are going to end up with due to others inability to fly their schedule, you are going to see the original numbers of 2 to 2.5 year upgrades come to fruition for guys hired today.
Personally, I think we will flow 150 more this year and over 300 next year.. and I think our CA and senior FO attrition to other carriers will greatly increase over the next couple years as well. SWA is rumored to soon dump the 1000 TPIC requirement also.
04-15-2016, 12:03 PM
#2320
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by cr700
Spot on analysis. I just think it's way too conservative. With the total aircraft count we are going to end up with due to others inability to fly their schedule, you are going to see the original numbers of 2 to 2.5 year upgrades come to fruition for guys hired today.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
