und2015

Random question. Is there a non-rev lounge at DFW?


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use2fly

Yes, off to the side at every gate.

ag386

Last year you were ripping me a new one on here for posting negatively slanted info. Have you changed your outlook at Envoy?

Smutter

Do you weigh about 250, wear glasses at night. And stand at the gate during boarding?

lakehouse

They all closed during bankruptcy permanent

SkyWago

Honestly, yes. Being on the new side of the group, next month seemed to look better from what we were being told and told and told but seems to still be worse than before. Esp seeing what has been happening to the ORD and other hub operations in the last 6 months with so many new players coming into the game that were never there like this before. When you are new it is hard to tell who to believe and how to read a lot of the situations and happenings going on around here.

Would I like to keep saying rainbows and unicorns. You bet! and if someone chooses to come here on their own accord, fine. I do realize that New Hires will help with flowing the senior guys over. But after sitting in the DFW crew room almost every week over the summer sitting ready, most of the 3-6 year FO's seem to be getting to the point of leaving in large numbers and saying screw it.

AA needs to realize that yes people are coming for the flow and what they are selling/telling NH's but the way the group of us that have been here on the junior CA and senior FO side is leaving a bad taste in the mouth and when AA gets into a hiring panic in a few years lots of people in the WO's they are going to want to call on are going to have left for other places. And Surprise! AA is up Fart Creek without a paddle yet again cause they never get ahead on anything.

I think so many of us are in the boat now of we have no faith that the flow will continue after the 824 and mgmnt is going to slow it way down and continue to use the grieve it mentality. I may be wrong but it is setting up that way and the ENY management has done a marvelous job of getting most of the pilot group to hate them.

E175 Driver

Ah. You must be on the little 145 or CRJ. You will hold better schedules soon!!
Sorry man.

SkywayExed

Thanks for the info. What's the average number of days off for lineholders on the 175? Also what's the average credit on a 4 day trip?

What

The average is 12 ˝ days off sequences are an average of 17 ˝ hours. Due to these averages is why we see ľ or more of the lines contain 5 four day trips in them.

Please don't believe the whole I have been here less than a year and hold weekends off in a year on the E75. For the last year we have seen most if at times not all lines have on more than one instance 2 days off between sequences, this is done in order to cram as many sequences in a line as possible. This leads to a break in cadence that for certain months we didn't have a single line with all weekends off but many had atleast one weekend off since the cadence was shuffled. While roughly half of the line holders on the E75 are new hires there are still 50+ that have been here 3+ years with the company. During the holidays people bid differently, as an example, I bid a line that finished on saturdays in order to drop 2 sequences with my vacation during Christmas. So a line that held weekends off now went to someone junior to me.

I am not trying to discurrage you, I don't want you to be disappointed and he led to believe something that it isn't. From here out someone hired in the E75 will have a slower movements than those hired 3 to 9 months ago, if we are to get more than your moveemenet will be much faster.

ag386

I believe that you have just put together a very fair assessment of what is currently happening at Envoy.

I have been saying what is highlighted above for quite some time now. Since the 824 is an arbitrated agreement, AAG wants to see it completed and out of the way. The remaining flow agreements are contractual only. Envoy has proven time and again that they interpret the contract differently and have no qualms violating it when it suits them.

What does it cost them? Not much. Look at the LTFO grievance. This took nearly four years to resolve and the company paid pennies on the dollar to settle. In the interim, they got away with doing exactly what they needed at a very low cost. I have no doubt that they will interfere with the flow agreements to suit the needs of the day. Today, that need is pilots.

It seems attrition is still high even though the flow is supposedly working properly. Why is that? Most likely, it's because most prudent
Envoy pilots have figured out AAG's game and are looking out for their own interests and career paths and not waiting on a corrupted management to hand them the golden ticket. When your pilot group is still between 1800 and 1850, even after all the hiring, that should tell you something. That it's hard to get pilots. Envoy now needs every single one of these 1800 in perpetuity to continue flying the schedules handed to them by AAG. That number could trend downward in the future depending on when and the big IF, the CRJ's are ever able to transfer to PSA.

You are a solid pilot or otherwise you wouldn't have completed training at Envoy and be on the line. I'm sorry that your career expectations balloon has been popped. However, let me recommend that you take control of your situation by doing everything you can to get out of Envoy as soon as possible. Sure, keep the flow in your back pocket. However, realize that flow card's value may decrease in the future all depending upon fleet plans, hiring numbers and attrition, none of which you can control. Don't discount the LCC's. They can be a great place for a young pilot to go for a few years until making it to a legacy. In the worst case scenario of not getting hired at a legacy, AT THE LEAST, you will be making decent money, have good QOL and be treated like a human being. Good luck!