Envoy
10-24-2018 | 11:28 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
You're going to be hired into the 145 in either ORD or LGA, depending on which particular stars have lined up in the cosmos the week of your start of Indoc. Unless you get lucky. You won't though.
As far as reserve goes..
As far as reserve goes..
In Chicago, the most senior reserve pilots seem to be NOV/DEC 2017 hires, although they probably held a line for some of the summer months when more lines were around to be had.
In New York, I'm seeing DOH of FEB/MAR of 2017. Same deal.
Going forward..In New York, I'm seeing DOH of FEB/MAR of 2017. Same deal.
According to an email sent to us by management, in Chicago lines are supposed to increase to ~120 hard lines in March, that means 15 more people off reserve this spring. Looking further, they're predicting ~145 lines by June.
Every 3 months there's a Vacancy Bid which allows pilots to shuffle bases and equipment (FOs cannot change aircraft without upgrading to CA). These will throw predictions off, and are impossible (for me) to predict.
Long story short, don't commute on reserve. You WILL hate it here. The flow isn't worth it. There's better places to work based on reserve rules alone.Every 3 months there's a Vacancy Bid which allows pilots to shuffle bases and equipment (FOs cannot change aircraft without upgrading to CA). These will throw predictions off, and are impossible (for me) to predict.
10-24-2018 | 11:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 0
10-24-2018 | 12:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,547
Likes: 0
From: Resigned
Are Envoy FOs across the fleet/bases sitting reserve for a long period of time? Some say yes, some say no but it's not always quantified. I understand "it depends." Are we talking 3 months, 6 months, 12+? What aircraft (As a 31 year old RTP it sounds like I would not have much of a choice, if my class were even offered a choice)? I would be looking at ORD or LGA.
Just looking for best guesses here as I have a couple of options available and I would prefer to not commute to reserve for half a year or more when there are other places I could hold a line much quicker.
Just looking for best guesses here as I have a couple of options available and I would prefer to not commute to reserve for half a year or more when there are other places I could hold a line much quicker.
10-24-2018 | 02:51 PM
Line Holder
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 866
Likes: 37
From: Guppy
All you flow haters are crazy. The flow is 100% worth it. If you really think it’s going to take a new hire 9 years to flow in this hiring environment you are out of your mind. Flow will have to be increased to keep up with AA’s hiring goals. Delta and United are just ramping up their hiring and attrition will continue to rise. I wouldn’tbe suprised if the entire envoy seniority list was gone in 5 years.
Far more likely is AA increasing OTS hiring to keep pace with their hiring needs. Anything else just doesn't make sense.
10-24-2018 | 03:07 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 2
Why would AA increase flow and sabotage the ops of their wholly-owned regionals? If AA increased flow in such a way that the regional couldn't limit, they would be putting immense amounts of strain on Envoy/Piedmont/PSA to cover those personnel losses. A WO will never flow more than they're contractually required to, and they'll never agree to a new contract that's going to create bigger hiring/staffing problems than already exist.
Far more likely is AA increasing OTS hiring to keep pace with their hiring needs. Anything else just doesn't make sense.
Far more likely is AA increasing OTS hiring to keep pace with their hiring needs. Anything else just doesn't make sense.
- honest 5 year flow
Or
- flow that isn't worth anything and OTS hiring at AA
10-24-2018 | 03:53 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Exactly. If AA keeps their word and keeps OTS hiring to a select few and the only way to AA is their WO’s that’s enough recruiting power. The WO’s together only flow around 550 a year. That’s not nearly enough they will need in the coming years. They’ll have no choice but to increase flow. Unless they want to sabotage their flow program.
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