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Old 11-16-2017, 01:08 PM
  #5691  
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Are you referring to trip rig?
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:37 PM
  #5692  
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Originally Posted by 3GreenKSNA View Post
As an airline pilot we only get paid from brake release to brake set. All that other time wandering around airports, waiting for maintenance, hotel vans etc is free. Thankfully we do get cancellation pay, displacement pay and dead head pay. From start to end of a trip we get $1.85 an hour. We used to just have lost weekends but now they have morphed into loss days. They are traditionally defined as being stuck on an extended overnight. Some gems E.G. MSN or YUL others from days gone by aren't as cool, say Manhattan Kansas.

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What I was asking is if a lost day is considered off for part 117 purposes or computing days off on a line.

And while most people would consider MSN and YUL better than MHK, there are MUCH worse places to spend a day.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:52 PM
  #5693  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude View Post
What I was asking is if a lost day is considered off for part 117 purposes or computing days off on a line.

And while most people would consider MSN and YUL better than MHK, there are MUCH worse places to spend a day.
If it's planned yes 30 hour rule can be applied. Not a day off in base so it cant be used to satisfy 11 days off a month for the contract.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:25 PM
  #5694  
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Originally Posted by highfarfast View Post
Watch for the training 'day off'. I had 5 days built into my recurrency training. Showed my HI10 to a couple captains when they told me it should be 4 days and they didn't really know why it was 5 days, just said "maybe it's because you have a probi ride".

Turns out we had two days of ground in Dallas, a 'training day off', and two days of sims in Houston. When I called crew scheduling as to why I had flying on my schedule that looked like a 7 day conflict, they said it was legal due to the training day off. I'm not sure how that's different than a travel day since the day off is used to travel to a different city but it didn't matter anyway (I got displaced for IOE for the part that would have been in question).

And yes, they will leave a single turn on your schedule if you are legal for it.
WOW there is a lot to unpack here. This absolutely sucks!! First it is 117 legal. However is it contractual?

The day off doesn't count towards your 11 days off. The company can not schedule you for more than 14hrs of training (including deadhead).

Now you could argue that the schedule would be fatiguing. How many days in a row are you scheduled to be away from home?
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:26 PM
  #5695  
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Originally Posted by pitchattitude View Post
What I was asking is if a lost day is considered off for part 117 purposes or computing days off on a line.

And while most people would consider MSN and YUL better than MHK, there are MUCH worse places to spend a day.
30 hour rule CAN be applied on a lost day to satisfy 117, BUT, not to satisfy the contract. The contracts says we must have 1 day off IN BASE out of 7 (I don't have the exact language in front of me...). However, you can pick up flying that would be more than 6 days in a row, as long as one of those 30 hour lost days are in there somewhere. In other words, the company cannot force you to spend more than 6 days out of base, but you can trade/OT yourself into it.

Edit: To answer the original question, no - a lost day does not count towards the minimum 11 days off/month. You are considered to be on duty, and thus earning per diem during a lost day.
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Old 11-16-2017, 04:46 PM
  #5696  
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Originally Posted by Boogerface View Post
30 hour rule CAN be applied on a lost day to satisfy 117, BUT, not to satisfy the contract. The contracts says we must have 1 day off IN BASE out of 7 (I don't have the exact language in front of me...). However, you can pick up flying that would be more than 6 days in a row, as long as one of those 30 hour lost days are in there somewhere. In other words, the company cannot force you to spend more than 6 days out of base, but you can trade/OT yourself into it.

Edit: To answer the original question, no - a lost day does not count towards the minimum 11 days off/month. You are considered to be on duty, and thus earning per diem during a lost day.
Actually it doesn't say you get a day off over a seven day period IN BASE. You can look for it but it is not there.

Edit: Section 10 A. 4 Comes close and I agree the original intent was to have a day off IN BASE, but it just says you need one duty free day if you have been on duty for six consecutive days.

You are only guaranteed 11 days off IN BASE per month.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:13 PM
  #5697  
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Originally Posted by Pedro4President View Post
WOW there is a lot to unpack here. This absolutely sucks!! First it is 117 legal. However is it contractual?

The day off doesn't count towards your 11 days off. The company can not schedule you for more than 14hrs of training (including deadhead).

Now you could argue that the schedule would be fatiguing. How many days in a row are you scheduled to be away from home?
First, I have to point out, it didn't matter anyway because the flying I thought would be an issue was removed for IOE anyway. Soooo, even if there would have been a grievance, there wasn't one. But I am curious about it for future reference.

It would have been 117 legal.

I was going to have more than 11 days off anyway so not an issue there.

I had a travel day to begin and a travel day at the end. Training also gave me a 'Training 7 day' at the end so two free days after training. However, I was looking at an HI10 that looked like 5 straight days of training. With the travel day at the beginning, it looked like 6 straight days which would have needed the day prior to the travel day to be clear. That's why I called and asked CS about it. The answer I got was that the 'training day off' in the middle of training made it OK. At the time, I did not know we were moving to another city for sims. After being in training and talking to a several other pilots, some doing sims in Dallas, some not, it seems that I was given the training day off because I was doing the sims in another city... which seems a lot like a travel day to me.

Anyway, however this 'day off' is treated, we need to know for the purpose of biding our schedules. I've talked to several captains that have been here for quite some time and they were unfamiliar. I certainly would have bid slightly differently.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:29 PM
  #5698  
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Is there a good explanation anywhere regarding selecting yes or no option for transition on the monthly bids?

I have one day of carryover into December and would like to stay on that trip. If I have a one day over lap or if the trips touch so working 8 days in a row...What does selecting yes or no do? I have asked around and everyone keeps telling me you want to select yes, but they don't have much of an explanation beyond, "that's what I always do."

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Old 11-16-2017, 06:48 PM
  #5699  
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Originally Posted by 3GreenKSNA View Post
Is there a good explanation anywhere regarding selecting yes or no option for transition on the monthly bids?

I have one day of carryover into December and would like to stay on that trip. If I have a one day over lap or if the trips touch so working 8 days in a row...What does selecting yes or no do? I have asked around and everyone keeps telling me you want to select yes, but they don't have much of an explanation beyond, "that's what I always do."

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Transition on Line: Essentially it pay protects you when they have to remove a trip because it conflicts. However, they can adjust the last three days of the trip and the first four days of the next trip. Section 10 QnA question 4 explains it. Beyond that answer I am sure someone could give a more nuanced and detailed answer on how you could maximize bidding the transition.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:08 PM
  #5700  
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If you select no you will fly the reminder of your November schedule any flying they need to remove will be in December and unpaid. (7d or flying on the same day) if you select yes they can choose what day to give you off and which trip you will fly but you will be paid the greater of the overlap and paid for 7d removal.
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