I'm a military rotorhead making the jump as well, but I already have my airplane ratings and hours. I don't need an RTP, but I want to live in the Chicago area, hence an ORD base, so Envoy is on my short list.

I definitely am not going to rely on 'flow,' though it makes for a nice insurance policy for career progression. However, is it true its around 9 years now? I saw the Envoy ALPA union throw some info up on social media about it and, anything circa an entire decade is a joke in the regional industry. In other words, flow isn't even worth factoring into the equation... it's like a quinary consideration after pay, schedule, work rules, domicile (e.g. quality of life factors). Since Envoy seems like it's lacking across the board, airlines like Endeavor or Air Wisconsin seem that much more appealing.

I think if Envoy improved their pilot contract, they'd be a viable contender. As for now, flow is a pipe dream and they have a subpar contract.

 

I wouldn't say morale is low. We're all ****ed about a lot of things and how the company is choosing to handle them, but for those of us that have been here for more than 5 years, we know bad morale. And we aren't anywhere near where we were a few years ago in the morale department.

With the exception of a few management goofs on the interwebs, flow isn't being falsely advertised. The recruiters won't blow smoke up your rear end. They will straight up tell you that flow is 8-9 years for a new hire today.

Pay is definitely inferior to EDV. Those guys are being paid an awesome living. Without looking at the rates right now to confirm my memory, I believe a 3 year FO at EDV makes only $8/hr less than a 3 year CA at Envoy. And a 5 year CA at EDV makes somewhere in the ballpark of $20/hr more than a 5 year CA at Envoy. Our management has stated that they don't intend to raise pay until hiring numbers start taking a big hit here.

Schedules blow. However, NY does have the best lines in the system. Those guys actually see some 18+ day off lines. But overall, it's no secret that we have some of the worst, inefficient, low days off lines out there.

Yep, LGA is super easy to get in either seat and they will continue to grow the operation there.

Travel benefits at the AA WOs are the absolute best in the regionals. Everything you said in regards to the travel benefits are true.

Bottom line, you wouldn't be stupid to pick Envoy or EDV. If I were in your shoes though, especially wanting a NY base, I think I would go with EDV simply for the great pay, better work rules and better QOL. Unless you have some skeletons in your closet that will prevent you from landing a legacy gig, the flow is worthless. You'll move on well before you'd see a flow. What I typically recommend to guys is if you live in an EDV base, go there. If you live in and Envoy base, go there. If you live in a base that serves both EDV and Envoy, or if you're going to commute no matter what, go to EDV. If you don't have a 4 year degree or you have some other sketchy things on your record then having that flow insurance in your back pocket at Envoy would be enough to tip the scales that way.

 

Flow is currently at 12 years.

Schedules are horrible.

Pay is far lower than another airline.

I would strongly recommend you don't choose an employer based on rumors of a future pay increase. In my opinion, a pay increase won't happen, and it's not reasonable to expect one.

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.

 

1. Correct, flow seems to be a disappointment.

2. Yes, it is true.

3. Yes

4. I don't know.

 

Regionals are all about location, location, location. You’re an RTP dude that wants to be in NYC Envoy is the place to be for a few reasons.
- Never commute to a regional.
- NYC seniority is low so a line will come quickly which is important since you’ll be here for a few years getting hours.
- There is a flow, not just a preferential interview. Between your battle buddies, networking, and the penchant for military dudes at airlines you’ll likely get a “preffered” interview anyway before your flow date.

We’ve chewed some of the same dirt so I’m going to give it to you straight: Disregard most of what you read here on QOL, “lies” aka the wording in the contract, and the like. You’re used to much, much worse in all regards. I’ve also yet to actually speak to someone who was “afraid” to upgrade, but lots of Senior FOs that likes bidding reserve, chilling at home, flying occasionally, and getting the lines they want. I’m by no means a company guy, but some of these folks are just candy asses. Interview everywhere just for practice, make the best decision for you.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Here’s a question. My December line has three days of carryover into January. My January line had a nice 20:45 4 day to start the month, but it has all been removed. Am I pay protected for those hours because I am getting 6 hours less now. I can’t find it in the contract, and yes I did click transition.

 

You will get paid the greater of the 2. I’d definitely keep a close eye on my pay stub though.

 

Snappy rejoinder. You clearly lack perspective.
I hear a lot about QOL but never any specifics. I get that not working 18 days a month is great, but that like a hobby not a job. Any “real” job and certainly an Army schedule are much more difficult than our contract minimum. Unless someone uploades a bid packet from another regional that has hundreds of 18 day off lines that a new FO/CA could conceivably hold it’s just people finding something to ***** about. Hell there are 15 day off lines with every overnight in station at Envoy, but a guy that doesn’t even have a seniority number yet shouldn’t use those to make a decision. There are plenty of dudes who like to whine in the service which OP would be used to dealing with.

You need a 1000 hrs of 121 time to upgrade. That’s roughly 2 years on property. Are you still a new FO after 2 years? If you’re not ready to upgrade after 2 years you should probably find another career, I hear Khol’s is hiring. Military guys can only apply 500 hours of thier ME FW PIC time most of whom have many more PIC hours in an indescribably more complex environment than a 121 operation. Basically 121 ain’t **** compared to bad guy country or being the master of your own domain taking a transport aircraft all over the globe. Everyone who gets an upgrade bid meets these qualifications. Of course a FO who’s been on property with 200 of the required 1000 hrs wouldn’t be “ready” they’ve got time to figure it out.
But hey don’t let me stand in your way while you fellate yourself on how different the ops are here.

 

Is it conceivable that someone with 1000 hours of flying 121 in phx was furloughed and hasn’t flown since 9/11? Well now they’re qualified to be forced into the left seat. I’d he/she prepared?