Envoy
12-26-2017, 07:33 AM
#6341
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by Montcalm
- morale is low
- the advertised flow is a lie
- the pay is far lower than ...
- the scheduling isn't great .............
Can we reasonably expect a pay raise to at least match ********* in the upcoming months?
- the advertised flow is a lie
- the pay is far lower than ...
- the scheduling isn't great .............
Can we reasonably expect a pay raise to at least match ********* in the upcoming months?
Schedules are horrible.
Pay is far lower than another airline.
I would strongly recommend you don't choose an employer based on rumors of a future pay increase. In my opinion, a pay increase won't happen, and it's not reasonable to expect one.
These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.
12-26-2017, 07:36 AM
#6342
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by new guy
Been absent for some time from the forums, but please correct me if I've read the last few hundred post incorrectly. As a military pilot looking to move into the commercial world, I interviewed at several regionals this past summer. Couldn't start because the army changed their minds on when I could get out. Either way, I'm approaching a separation point again and am trying to catch up. Tell me if I'm wrong regarding the following ;
1) new hire numbers have increased and per contract language, flow to ******* should have increased as well, but hasn't.
2) there's such a shortage of CA that people over 1k are being forced into CA positions (this can't be true?)
3) upon involuntary upgrade, you also run the risk of being sent/assigned to another domicile for home base?
4) I haven't seen anyone listing/discussing reserve/line holding times for NHs dependent upon the base. I've been able to find those numbers on both the ******** and *** forums. Any chance someone here has them?
As someone looking at the regionals with inexperienced eyes, I can tell you that issues 1-3, if true, are non-starters for many of my peers and I. We understand that we'll be cogs in a different machine than the one we have been, but after years of not having choices, doing as your told, etc, none of us are looking for a second career that's more of the same.
1) new hire numbers have increased and per contract language, flow to ******* should have increased as well, but hasn't.
2) there's such a shortage of CA that people over 1k are being forced into CA positions (this can't be true?)
3) upon involuntary upgrade, you also run the risk of being sent/assigned to another domicile for home base?
4) I haven't seen anyone listing/discussing reserve/line holding times for NHs dependent upon the base. I've been able to find those numbers on both the ******** and *** forums. Any chance someone here has them?
As someone looking at the regionals with inexperienced eyes, I can tell you that issues 1-3, if true, are non-starters for many of my peers and I. We understand that we'll be cogs in a different machine than the one we have been, but after years of not having choices, doing as your told, etc, none of us are looking for a second career that's more of the same.
2. Yes, it is true.
3. Yes
4. I don't know.
12-27-2017, 10:11 AM
#6343
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Montcalm
Looking at regionals for my first 121 job. Envoy was my first pick. But after reading through the latest threads it seems that :
- morale is low
- the advertised flow is a lie
- the pay is far lower than EDV
- the scheduling isn't great
+ I want to be NYC based and that should be easy to get
+ Travels benefits are slightly better than EDV (same priority as mainline, buddy passes, 24h check-in... right?)
Can we reasonably expect a pay raise to at least match Endeavor in the upcoming months? Am I being stupid to even consider interviewing with Envoy, or did I miss something?
- morale is low
- the advertised flow is a lie
- the pay is far lower than EDV
- the scheduling isn't great
+ I want to be NYC based and that should be easy to get
+ Travels benefits are slightly better than EDV (same priority as mainline, buddy passes, 24h check-in... right?)
Can we reasonably expect a pay raise to at least match Endeavor in the upcoming months? Am I being stupid to even consider interviewing with Envoy, or did I miss something?
- Never commute to a regional.
- NYC seniority is low so a line will come quickly which is important since you’ll be here for a few years getting hours.
- There is a flow, not just a preferential interview. Between your battle buddies, networking, and the penchant for military dudes at airlines you’ll likely get a “preffered” interview anyway before your flow date.
We’ve chewed some of the same dirt so I’m going to give it to you straight: Disregard most of what you read here on QOL, “lies” aka the wording in the contract, and the like. You’re used to much, much worse in all regards. I’ve also yet to actually speak to someone who was “afraid” to upgrade, but lots of Senior FOs that likes bidding reserve, chilling at home, flying occasionally, and getting the lines they want. I’m by no means a company guy, but some of these folks are just candy asses. Interview everywhere just for practice, make the best decision for you.
12-27-2017, 10:35 AM
#6344
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
Originally Posted by OldBiff
Regionals are all about location, location, location. You’re an RTP dude that wants to be in NYC Envoy is the place to be for a few reasons.
- Never commute to a regional.
- NYC seniority is low so a line will come quickly which is important since you’ll be here for a few years getting hours.
- There is a flow, not just a preferential interview. Between your battle buddies, networking, and the penchant for military dudes at airlines you’ll likely get a “preffered” interview anyway before your flow date.
We’ve chewed some of the same dirt so I’m going to give it to you straight:
Disregard most of what you read here on QOL, QOL here is lacking compare to most of the other competitive regionals“lies” aka the wording in the contract, and the like. You’re used to much, much worse in all regards.
I’ve also yet to actually speak to someone who was “afraid” to upgrade, Are you a CA that flies with junior FOs? Because I fly with junior FOs all the time that says they're simply not ready to move to the left seat with only a few months on property. but lots of Senior FOs that likes bidding reserve, chilling at home, flying occasionally, and getting the lines they want.
I’m by no means a company guy, Could've fooled me but some of these folks are just candy asses. Interview everywhere just for practice, make the best decision for you.
- Never commute to a regional.
- NYC seniority is low so a line will come quickly which is important since you’ll be here for a few years getting hours.
- There is a flow, not just a preferential interview. Between your battle buddies, networking, and the penchant for military dudes at airlines you’ll likely get a “preffered” interview anyway before your flow date.
We’ve chewed some of the same dirt so I’m going to give it to you straight:
Disregard most of what you read here on QOL, QOL here is lacking compare to most of the other competitive regionals“lies” aka the wording in the contract, and the like. You’re used to much, much worse in all regards.
I’ve also yet to actually speak to someone who was “afraid” to upgrade, Are you a CA that flies with junior FOs? Because I fly with junior FOs all the time that says they're simply not ready to move to the left seat with only a few months on property. but lots of Senior FOs that likes bidding reserve, chilling at home, flying occasionally, and getting the lines they want.
I’m by no means a company guy, Could've fooled me but some of these folks are just candy asses. Interview everywhere just for practice, make the best decision for you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
12-27-2017, 11:45 AM
#6345
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Pawn
Posts: 1,138
Here’s a question. My December line has three days of carryover into January. My January line had a nice 20:45 4 day to start the month, but it has all been removed. Am I pay protected for those hours because I am getting 6 hours less now. I can’t find it in the contract, and yes I did click transition.
12-27-2017, 12:10 PM
#6346
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
Here’s a question. My December line has three days of carryover into January. My January line had a nice 20:45 4 day to start the month, but it has all been removed. Am I pay protected for those hours because I am getting 6 hours less now. I can’t find it in the contract, and yes I did click transition.
12-27-2017, 12:58 PM
#6347
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by bigtime209
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Originally Posted by bigtime209
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hear a lot about QOL but never any specifics. I get that not working 18 days a month is great, but that like a hobby not a job. Any “real” job and certainly an Army schedule are much more difficult than our contract minimum. Unless someone uploades a bid packet from another regional that has hundreds of 18 day off lines that a new FO/CA could conceivably hold it’s just people finding something to ***** about. Hell there are 15 day off lines with every overnight in station at Envoy, but a guy that doesn’t even have a seniority number yet shouldn’t use those to make a decision. There are plenty of dudes who like to whine in the service which OP would be used to dealing with.
You need a 1000 hrs of 121 time to upgrade. That’s roughly 2 years on property. Are you still a new FO after 2 years? If you’re not ready to upgrade after 2 years you should probably find another career, I hear Khol’s is hiring. Military guys can only apply 500 hours of thier ME FW PIC time most of whom have many more PIC hours in an indescribably more complex environment than a 121 operation. Basically 121 ain’t **** compared to bad guy country or being the master of your own domain taking a transport aircraft all over the globe. Everyone who gets an upgrade bid meets these qualifications. Of course a FO who’s been on property with 200 of the required 1000 hrs wouldn’t be “ready” they’ve got time to figure it out.
But hey don’t let me stand in your way while you fellate yourself on how different the ops are here.
12-27-2017, 02:15 PM
#6349
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
Originally Posted by OldBiff
Snappy rejoinder. You clearly lack perspective.
I hear a lot about QOL but never any specifics. I get that not working 18 days a month is great, but that like a hobby not a job. Any “real” job and certainly an Army schedule are much more difficult than our contract minimum. Unless someone uploades a bid packet from another regional that has hundreds of 18 day off lines that a new FO/CA could conceivably hold it’s just people finding something to ***** about. Hell there are 15 day off lines with every overnight in station at Envoy, but a guy that doesn’t even have a seniority number yet shouldn’t use those to make a decision. There are plenty of dudes who like to whine in the service which OP would be used to dealing with.
You need a 1000 hrs of 121 time to upgrade. That’s roughly 2 years on property. Are you still a new FO after 2 years? If you’re not ready to upgrade after 2 years you should probably find another career, I hear Khol’s is hiring. Military guys can only apply 500 hours of thier ME FW PIC time most of whom have many more PIC hours in an indescribably more complex environment than a 121 operation. Basically 121 ain’t **** compared to bad guy country or being the master of your own domain taking a transport aircraft all over the globe. Everyone who gets an upgrade bid meets these qualifications. Of course a FO who’s been on property with 200 of the required 1000 hrs wouldn’t be “ready” they’ve got time to figure it out.
But hey don’t let me stand in your way while you fellate yourself on how different the ops are here.
I hear a lot about QOL but never any specifics. I get that not working 18 days a month is great, but that like a hobby not a job. Any “real” job and certainly an Army schedule are much more difficult than our contract minimum. Unless someone uploades a bid packet from another regional that has hundreds of 18 day off lines that a new FO/CA could conceivably hold it’s just people finding something to ***** about. Hell there are 15 day off lines with every overnight in station at Envoy, but a guy that doesn’t even have a seniority number yet shouldn’t use those to make a decision. There are plenty of dudes who like to whine in the service which OP would be used to dealing with.
You need a 1000 hrs of 121 time to upgrade. That’s roughly 2 years on property. Are you still a new FO after 2 years? If you’re not ready to upgrade after 2 years you should probably find another career, I hear Khol’s is hiring. Military guys can only apply 500 hours of thier ME FW PIC time most of whom have many more PIC hours in an indescribably more complex environment than a 121 operation. Basically 121 ain’t **** compared to bad guy country or being the master of your own domain taking a transport aircraft all over the globe. Everyone who gets an upgrade bid meets these qualifications. Of course a FO who’s been on property with 200 of the required 1000 hrs wouldn’t be “ready” they’ve got time to figure it out.
But hey don’t let me stand in your way while you fellate yourself on how different the ops are here.
12-27-2017, 04:10 PM
#6350
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 185
Thanks for the broad range of inputs. It helps putting things in perspective.
For the record, I'm not military. But I spent the year bush flying in a warzone (Eastern Congo), sleeping under a tent in the jungle, eating **** and getting shot at daily. So yeah, when I read about bad QOL, I take it with a grain of salt. (e.g. 15 vs 18 days off per month... Don't think I even had that many days off in 6 months!).
EDV claims that FO first and second year rates are $50 and $59+ per hour. What's it like at Envoy?
Also, how many hours can a LGA based FO credit on average? I intend to pickup as much OT as I can... Just trying to figure what my paycheck would look like. NYC ain't cheap.
For the record, I'm not military. But I spent the year bush flying in a warzone (Eastern Congo), sleeping under a tent in the jungle, eating **** and getting shot at daily. So yeah, when I read about bad QOL, I take it with a grain of salt. (e.g. 15 vs 18 days off per month... Don't think I even had that many days off in 6 months!).
EDV claims that FO first and second year rates are $50 and $59+ per hour. What's it like at Envoy?
Also, how many hours can a LGA based FO credit on average? I intend to pickup as much OT as I can... Just trying to figure what my paycheck would look like. NYC ain't cheap.
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