Interesting how so many concur that our Federal Government’s response, the FAA’s response, to the Colgan crash was to make the minimum hour requirement for regionals 1500 hours. Yet, now we argue out the other side of our mouths that making an FO a captain after X number of hours pre-121 and 1,000 hours (minimum) of 121 experience is NOT sufficient to become a captain. What poppy-****!

You argue out of both sides of your mouths with generic statements.

If there are individual FOs who are unable to serve as captains, their fellow pilots should make it known to the company and to the union.

Neither of them (Neither Envoy nor the union) wants to see an air accident after they signed off on a captain at 1,000 hours of 121 time.

 

Minimums should not be the standard when it comes to moving into a position of greater responsibility and accountability. Some people are ready, others are not. What if someone had their 1000 hours flying a turboprop back in the 80’s. Do you not think they should get some time under there belt first and learn the operation before being forced into the left seat?

 

Calm down. The process weeds out the incompetent & unsafe.

The standards should be increased if it is not safe as some of you claim. It has over the years become safer. Yes more risks are taken, due to higher standards and regulations. Planes will not fall out of the sky, so relax. Call the FAA if your so scared, not the message board. Nothing can be done here, except jibber jabber ventilation.

Join the training Department, become a Check Airmen. I have faith in them & current CA’s are great role models and experienced, you should be sharing it with us already. Tell your stories, share your mistakes, share your victories! Be the mentor that is in your JOB DESCRIPTION.

If I might add... Those who are not ready in Groundschool, sims, OE, Fed-ride, will be weeded out, smoked out, left high and dry. If u know what I mean. ENY is not the first to have quick 121 upgrades, it will not be the last. So calm your asses down.

 

I’ll start with I agree with you. But the issue is they are forcing guys, instead of making so the more experienced person is bidding it. It’s becoming a punishment to upgrade. And now the poor guys forced are forever junior.

Can you imagine how bad it’ll be to get CRJ CA? You have to have 10 years seniority just to be a junior line holder.

 

I hear you. But they can or should Go to Endeavor, or CommutAir with better PAY RATES & work rules. Why come to Envoy? Yet classes are full knowing this. So come here at your own risk of failing upgrade training/Fed-ride, getting violated as a new CA, getting harassed by Mgmt for PIC inefficiencies less on time departures, if it occurs. Not even going to touch dancing around the Contract or dealing with Scheduling. MX /MEL write-ups. One can learn from experience. A LCA can help/teach to an extent. Let us keep a hush mouth about these new CA still being on Probation. Talk about whipsaw! That will be interesting. Many have been warned. Yet they still come. If a NH can not handle it why come here, go to the many other regionals hiring, paying more, offering better QOL work rules and greater soft pay. CommutAir, Endeavor comes to mind. No forced Upgrade, 1000hrs will get you an upgrade at both.

Or maybe the NH with 1000 hrs+ from XJT/MESA/GoJet etc, has faith in the top notch training department here at ENY to give him/her the training and tools needed to become successful Captains.

A good pilot is always learning. CAs included.

 

The problem with this theory is it is still forcing people where they have to fight NOT to be weeded out. Just because they are not ready YET doesn’t mean they won’t be. You talk about mentoring. How can someone be mentored if they are forced into the left seat? Twenty five hours in IOE is not enough. These are extreme examples, but what about the person who only flew in temperate weather? Never seen icing conditions or de-icing operations. Doesn’t mean they can’t do it, but not good to be learning from the left seat and then there is the problem of perpetuating misconceptions to someone who is even less experienced that is in the right seat.

 

You mean qualified pilots. This doesn't target FOs. It targets all pilots or at least that's what the language of the contract says. I think the union screwed us over by their last implementation of it and makes it target FOs. The use the language "what your seniority can hold" if you are selected into the pool of 15 G 4 displaced pilots. They also said current CAs can't get displaced out of their seats. This is a completely wrong interpretation of the contract and favors the company greatly. They basically gave the company more ability to force upgrades then the contract allows.

This provision is suppose to force ALL pilots junior enough to get screwed to be forced to a new position regardless of being a CA or FO.

This next bid is going to get interesting.

 

I don’t think even gojets forces fos to upgrade before they are ready to put in the bid

 

There hasn’t been accidents yet because the CAs haven’t been forced to upgrade. Now they are, and not just that but new guys who don’t even know the operation yet. So your point about safety is invalid. I see with your other post your angle is this crappy arrangement will bring less new hires in forcing the company to do something. Still they should be doing something about it anyway if safety is the number one priority.

 

Unfortunately we all know how lessons have to be learned in the aviation industry