Pedro4President

Of which I completely disagree with. Here's how. 15G4 forces a pilot from a current position to a new position. So there is no case in which one would be able to hold any seniority except the unfilled vacancy. The only time seniority bidding comes into play should be when multiple vacancies go unfilled. The more senior pilot should get a choice between the unfilled spots. A senior FO in DFW should not be awarded an upgrade in DFW because he was displaced for 15G4 because no vacancy is in DFW. If he is effected by 15G4 then he should be forced to an unfilled vacancy. All pilots junior to him including CAs should also be displaced to the unfilled vacancy(ies)

Now I guess an FO could displace a CA if the CA held one of the position on the vacancy. An ORD FO could move to ORD CA and a displaced ORD CA to LGA CA. But it's not because of a pilot is displacing anyone.

Subpilot

I agree with that perspective.

Daytripper13

Either way it happened on the last vacancy. Go back and look and you’ll see a few guys were displaced from DFE to DCE. There were no vacancies for DCE.
The problem is 15G4 contradicts 15K3 which states:
A pilot will be considered displaced if he is affected by any one of the following:
a. his bid status is eliminated; or
b. the Company reduces the number of positions in a bid status in his domicile; or
c. he is displaced by a more senior pilot.
Wouldn’t using 15G4 mean your bid status is eliminated meaning you’re displaced? If so then 15K1 should apply which states:
A displaced pilot may fill a vacancy or displace the most junior pilot in any position in any domicile provided he is senior to such pilot. The junior pilot will then also be considered to have been displaced. Such displaced pilot will be entitled to fly the equipment and status to which his seniority entitles him and he will be given the
opportunity to enter training for such position as soon as practicable.

Subpilot

I don’t see it that way. It is not a true displacement and neither a, b or c apply under 15G4. No bid status is being eliminated or reduced in size. A pilot under 15G4 can only fill an unfilled vacancy and can not bump someone else out of a status. If someone was forced into DCE last bid then my money is on it being a backfill - thus an unfilled vacancy.

Pedro4President

Using 15G4 does not trigger a displacement. None of 15K1 applies.IMO. The company isn't reducing a specific bid status. A pilot isn't being displaced by another pilot. His position isn't eliminated.

All CA position junior to the most senior displaced pilot should be triggered by 15G4. And it looks like they weren't because there wasnt a displacement next to the pilots name. The union screwed us over majorly by their implementation of 15G4.

I don't think the union did it purposely. I think the union was sincerely acting in the best interest of the pilots but neglected to see the consequences of their decision.

Daytripper13

Yeah it’s all in how you interpret our worthless contract. Really the only verification I’ve got on this subject was the union email from 10/5/17. The Q and A addressed it and was apparently verified by the company.

Q: Can a Captain be displaced out of base by a more senior pilot in this bid since there may be displacements?

A: It is possible, however unlikely, that a current captain may be displaced by a senior FO who is upgraded under Section 15.G.4. If that senior displaced FO has a displacement preference for a junior pilot's status, that junior pilot may also be displaced. In such case, the junior pilot's displacement preferences would be considered when moving them to a new status.

Subpilot

Well, that is what that says. I just can’t see that logic. If I was a captain who was force displaced by 15G4, I would be filing the MOAG. I guess we will all see how this plays out...again, in a few weeks.

TheStranger

Can someone please explain the proffer to displace, what is it’s purpose? Thanks.

Pedro4President

A displacement occurs when your position is no longer available or a more senior pilot displaced you from your seat.

During a displacement pilots are getting removed from their position involuntarily. Sometimes pilots want to leave their position and a more senior pilot can volunteer (proffer to displace) to move positions in place of a junior pilot who would have been displaced involuntarily.

If you understand voluntary vs involuntary TDY then you understand the basics of proffer to displace.

new guy

Been absent for some time from the forums, but please correct me if I've read the last few hundred post incorrectly. As a military pilot looking to move into the commercial world, I interviewed at several regionals this past summer. Couldn't start because the army changed their minds on when I could get out. Either way, I'm approaching a separation point again and am trying to catch up. Tell me if I'm wrong regarding the following ;

1) new hire numbers have increased and per contract language, flow to American should have increased as well, but hasn't.

2) there's such a shortage of CA that people over 1k are being forced into CA positions (this can't be true?)

3) upon involuntary upgrade, you also run the risk of being sent/assigned to another domicile for home base?

4) I haven't seen anyone listing/discussing reserve/line holding times for NHs dependent upon the base. I've been able to find those numbers on both the endeavor and psa forums. Any chance someone here has them?

As someone looking at the regionals with inexperienced eyes, I can tell you that issues 1-3, if true, are non-starters for many of my peers and I. We understand that we'll be cogs in a different machine than the one we have been, but after years of not having choices, doing as your told, etc, none of us are looking for a second career that's more of the same.