Envoy
01-01-2018 | 05:56 AM
#6421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
My understanding is that that senior FO in his scenario would not be able to hold the CRJ.
I've talked to the union about this and I was told that first they will run the vacancy. After that they will see how many unfilled seats there are. They will then see if there are any guys that put a preference to displace in for any of those unfilled seats. Then do the inverse seniority displacement to fill the rest of those unfilled seats. I was told they only look at the unfilled seats when they are doing the displacement.
I'm a senior FO myself who would like to remain an FO. The union told me they believe the top 50 FOs will be safe in this displacement but my numbers tell me otherwise. Because of the way this displacement works, I'm being forced to bid for the vacancy because I don't want to change planes or base.
I feel bad for all the really senior FOs. If this gets all the way up to them, they won't want to bid the vacancy because of the 1 year seat lock for flow. It's possible they could be forced to a different plane or base.
I've talked to the union about this and I was told that first they will run the vacancy. After that they will see how many unfilled seats there are. They will then see if there are any guys that put a preference to displace in for any of those unfilled seats. Then do the inverse seniority displacement to fill the rest of those unfilled seats. I was told they only look at the unfilled seats when they are doing the displacement.
I'm a senior FO myself who would like to remain an FO. The union told me they believe the top 50 FOs will be safe in this displacement but my numbers tell me otherwise. Because of the way this displacement works, I'm being forced to bid for the vacancy because I don't want to change planes or base.
I feel bad for all the really senior FOs. If this gets all the way up to them, they won't want to bid the vacancy because of the 1 year seat lock for flow. It's possible they could be forced to a different plane or base.
01-01-2018 | 06:12 AM
#6422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 0
I'm glad this is generating some legitimate discussion, because this is going deep into uncharted territory. And the union and company need to put out some further guidance. At least it will help us understand what is coming.
I figured there was some way to preserve seniority on the subsequent bid, I just wasn't sure what that process was.
It is interesting that they didn't include the verbage about the seat lock even though with what the union is saying this will go much higher than the last bid.
The union also stated this is supposed to affect nearly all eligible FOs. How can the peter pilot really know where they fall? I tried to look at the seniority list. You can get a pretty good idea of where MOST people above that point should have enough time to be captain, but there is just no way to know how many on the bottom have qualifying time outside their "relative seniority experience".
Bottom line is:
BOHICA!!
Have a Happy New Year!
I figured there was some way to preserve seniority on the subsequent bid, I just wasn't sure what that process was.
It is interesting that they didn't include the verbage about the seat lock even though with what the union is saying this will go much higher than the last bid.
The union also stated this is supposed to affect nearly all eligible FOs. How can the peter pilot really know where they fall? I tried to look at the seniority list. You can get a pretty good idea of where MOST people above that point should have enough time to be captain, but there is just no way to know how many on the bottom have qualifying time outside their "relative seniority experience".
Bottom line is:
BOHICA!!
Have a Happy New Year!
01-01-2018 | 06:14 AM
#6423
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
OT on holidays
Hey guys, long time lurker and I finally signed up, quick question.
It's my understanding that regardless of aircraft/seat everyone gets premium pay (200%) on certain holidays if they pick up OT. Today being one of those days for New Years, is this correct?
It's my understanding that regardless of aircraft/seat everyone gets premium pay (200%) on certain holidays if they pick up OT. Today being one of those days for New Years, is this correct?
01-01-2018 | 06:33 AM
#6424
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
My understanding is that that senior FO in his scenario would not be able to hold the CRJ.
I've talked to the union about this and I was told that first they will run the vacancy. After that they will see how many unfilled seats there are. They will then see if there are any guys that put a preference to displace in for any of those unfilled seats. Then do the inverse seniority displacement to fill the rest of those unfilled seats. I was told they only look at the unfilled seats when they are doing the displacement.
I'm a senior FO myself who would like to remain an FO. The union told me they believe the top 50 FOs will be safe in this displacement but my numbers tell me otherwise. Because of the way this displacement works, I'm being forced to bid for the vacancy because I don't want to change planes or base.
I feel bad for all the really senior FOs. If this gets all the way up to them, they won't want to bid the vacancy because of the 1 year seat lock for flow. It's possible they could be forced to a different plane or base.
I've talked to the union about this and I was told that first they will run the vacancy. After that they will see how many unfilled seats there are. They will then see if there are any guys that put a preference to displace in for any of those unfilled seats. Then do the inverse seniority displacement to fill the rest of those unfilled seats. I was told they only look at the unfilled seats when they are doing the displacement.
I'm a senior FO myself who would like to remain an FO. The union told me they believe the top 50 FOs will be safe in this displacement but my numbers tell me otherwise. Because of the way this displacement works, I'm being forced to bid for the vacancy because I don't want to change planes or base.
I feel bad for all the really senior FOs. If this gets all the way up to them, they won't want to bid the vacancy because of the 1 year seat lock for flow. It's possible they could be forced to a different plane or base.
Q: Can a Captain be displaced out of base by a more senior pilot in this bid since there may be displacements?
A: It is possible, however unlikely, that a current captain may be displaced by a senior FO who is upgraded under Section 15.G.4. If that senior displaced FO has a displacement preference for a junior pilot's status, that junior pilot may also be displaced. In such case, the junior pilot's displacement preferences would be considered when moving them to a new status.
If it reaches say an 8yr FO that’s based in DFW then every CA junior to you in DFW should be subject to being reassigned to another base or equipment. “pilots may be assigned to such vacancy in reverse order of seniority among those pilots who meet the minimum qualifications” which means every CA below the most senior FO selected meets the minimum quals to be displaced. That’s the way I read it at least.
01-01-2018 | 06:35 AM
#6425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
Edit: Section 3.J.3
01-01-2018 | 10:36 AM
#6426
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
This is so frustrating. There is a lot on the line and it still seems like the union still doesn't know how this will play out. Or at least they all aren't on the same page.
01-01-2018 | 11:55 AM
#6427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 0
This was in the union email about the last vacancy.
Q: Can a Captain be displaced out of base by a more senior pilot in this bid since there may be displacements?
A: It is possible, however unlikely, that a current captain may be displaced by a senior FO who is upgraded under Section 15.G.4. If that senior displaced FO has a displacement preference for a junior pilot's status, that junior pilot may also be displaced. In such case, the junior pilot's displacement preferences would be considered when moving them to a new status.
If it reaches say an 8yr FO that’s based in DFW then every CA junior to you in DFW should be subject to being reassigned to another base or equipment. “pilots may be assigned to such vacancy in reverse order of seniority among those pilots who meet the minimum qualifications” which means every CA below the most senior FO selected meets the minimum quals to be displaced. That’s the way I read it at least.
Q: Can a Captain be displaced out of base by a more senior pilot in this bid since there may be displacements?
A: It is possible, however unlikely, that a current captain may be displaced by a senior FO who is upgraded under Section 15.G.4. If that senior displaced FO has a displacement preference for a junior pilot's status, that junior pilot may also be displaced. In such case, the junior pilot's displacement preferences would be considered when moving them to a new status.
If it reaches say an 8yr FO that’s based in DFW then every CA junior to you in DFW should be subject to being reassigned to another base or equipment. “pilots may be assigned to such vacancy in reverse order of seniority among those pilots who meet the minimum qualifications” which means every CA below the most senior FO selected meets the minimum quals to be displaced. That’s the way I read it at least.
01-01-2018 | 05:31 PM
#6428
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Glad the union finally put out in writing how this scenario would work. It looks like the union guy I talked to was correct. If you get displaced to CA, you will only be allowed to hold an unfilled seat.
Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to an unfilled vacancy that best matches his/her displacement preferences. If the pilot has insufficient displacement bids, or if his/her seniority can not hold his/her requested statuses then he/she will be assigned a status per the needs of the Company. This will repeat in seniority order (from most senior to most junior) until all the unfilled vacancies have been satisfied.
Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to an unfilled vacancy that best matches his/her displacement preferences. If the pilot has insufficient displacement bids, or if his/her seniority can not hold his/her requested statuses then he/she will be assigned a status per the needs of the Company. This will repeat in seniority order (from most senior to most junior) until all the unfilled vacancies have been satisfied.
01-01-2018 | 06:20 PM
#6429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
The union in their interpretation and implementation of 15 G 4 has hurt our pilot group worse than anything since bankruptcy. They have allowed the company to displace pilots OUT of seniority order. 15G4 in no way possible can come close to being interpreted as singling out FOs to upgrade to CA. 15 G 4 dose allow FOs to be forced to a CA position but all CAs junior to the FO must also be effected before the FO.
I still can't believe there isn't a grievance filed.
My biggest shocker was in the first email that said "To the extent possible displacement [bids would be honored]." (Paraphrased the last part)
I still can't believe there isn't a grievance filed.
My biggest shocker was in the first email that said "To the extent possible displacement [bids would be honored]." (Paraphrased the last part)
01-01-2018 | 06:29 PM
#6430
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
That sentence from that first email stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. More weak language that the company can get away with doing whatever they wish.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
