You want news? Oh. Ok. We're getting 717's and we ..... Oh wait. That rumor was dispelled. Ummm. Sorry, no news today.

 

Someone already created a XJT news (no bickering) thread. Look a few threads down.
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Just came through recurrent. Hiring is now totally STOPPED (On the ASA side.) Apparently we are in a holding pattern while we wait for the vote of the Pinnacle TA. Word around town is that once they vote this TA in, management is going to come back with a "here is the industry standard now!" If you (Pinnacle guys vote this in, we are all truly doomed!) I guess we will wait and see!

 

Thanks for the info. All that chest thumping us L-ASA guys been doing towards L-XJT folks is going to come to an abrupt stop. That PNCL TA will pass by a landslide.

 

How sad is that?!?!? Our eventual merger will instantly take a back seat. Apparently the company is going to go back on all those sections already agreed to in negotiations and now say "nope" "look at what industry standard is now!"; they are going to try to take everything away!!! If this most disgusting T.A. Passes; only luck and God can help us!!!

I guess I can truly only hope those 1400 pilots going to get furloughed will grow a "pair" and not ruin the lives of us all. From what I hear; we have no chance! After all the shi!@$ talk, GoJets will be higher paid!?!?!!?! Let the DCI Whipsaw begin!?

 

Were not them. Read this very well written post why were not them and will not except anything that's not industry leading. Sorry if its already been posted.

Judge, I often appreciate what you post, but this one I like especially! This is RIGHT ON! It's known as economies of scale. That is a very important theory to appreciate as we manage OUR OWN expectations!

Even without Skypest, we (ASA/XJT) are the largest regional Airline in the world. IN THE WORLD! We might not be there yet, but let's just explore what that "should" mean to us as far as bargaining power now and in the future.

That means that our parent corporation has a purchasing power greater than any other regional Airline IN THE WORLD! And therefor, everything we buy from toilet paper to MRJ's should be at a price lower than everyone else IN THE WORLD. That means that we should have proportionately fewer entry-level, mid, to executive staff per employee to run the operation, while at the same time, having the ability to hire and compensate handsomely more capable and talented people than any other regional Airline to perform said duties (I know, we're not there yet, but the theory is solid - stay with me). That means that when scheduling our flying we are given more flight segments from our Mainline partners to combine into pairings and lines than any other company we compete with and, can therefor, create more efficient and productive schedules than any other regional, therefor, executing said schedules at a lower cost with less employees. That means that our administrative cost per employee for everything from healthcare, to 401k, to Aerodata services should be lower than any of our competitors. That means that we should be able to achomplish the same requirements of any CPA we bid for at a lower cost than any of our competitors. Without even breaking a sweat! Easy!

So now, let's consider our current negotiations with all of the above in mind. What should we be able to negotiate? It is true, as has been said ad nauseum, you are only worth what you can negotiate. So what should we be able to negotiate? Well, in my mind, we should be able to negotiate the highest rates in the industry for both 50 and 70-76 seat lift in the regional industry. Why? Because we "should" have the lowest cost, by far. Why? Because of our economies of scale. Due to our buying power we "should" have the ability to have lower cost on nearly every line of the accountants spreadsheet than any other regional Airline.

So who, or where, is that money (savings) going to go to? If you believe the scare tactics, it needs to go to the corporation to avoid liquidation and bankruptsy in such troubled times. It needs to go to the shareholders who invest as day traders and need an ROI that will keep them interested in SKYW. I means just look at Pinnacle and Comair and Eagle! We have to adjust our hourly pilot rates to be lower than theirs or we can't compete! Right?

Wrong! As has been said by others, pilot pay is a small, small, fraction of overall cost. I mean there is In-flight, and MX, and management, and sick pay, and retirement, healthcare, and general operating cost, and on, and on, and on. If you think that a $6 or $10 or $14 per hour hourly rate above the competition will be the determining factor to overall CPA bid cost and success in CPA bids you are living on the moon. Is it a factor? Absolutely! Is it the primary determinant in CPA success? Not even close. Is it Managements duty to attempt to reduce any and all cost possible? Yes. Is that my problem? No!

To use a management colloquialism, we have to be competitive! What percentage of that equation does pilot pay contribute? Some. But not all. MX pay, In-flight, management, Aerodata, toilet paper, whatever. They all have a factor.

If we are the largest regional Airline with the lowest operating cost, we "should" be able to pay our pilots at the top of the scale, while at the same time being able to have the lowest cost, and bid successfully for future CPA's. And our MX, and In-flight, and 401k, and soft-time, and whatever should be at the top while still being able to underbid competitors for any future flying.

That, is what we should be negotiating for. That is the "range" of acceptability be should be attempting to determine in negotiations. Not looking back at companies who are bankrupt and negotiating with a gun to their head for rates that are only intended to be a stop-gap for a few years before liquidation.

If Pinnocolaba negotiated $44 CA rates for 76 seat feed, that does not mean that we need $43 rates for 76 seat feed to compete. It's apples to oranges. They are a fraction of our size and would need even lower overall cost to actually compete with Xjt/ASA.

There literally is NO REASON why XJT/ASA should not be the highest paid regional Airline in the world if they are the largest regional in the world. Do I expect a 30% increase in pay? No. But do I expect that I will be the highest paid 50 seat/70-76 seat pilot in the industry? You're **** right!!

 

I don't know about the "chest thumping" towards L-XJT. If I rember right, a lot of L-ASA guys were saying modest pay increase and new reserve rules and we would be content. Wasn't there a few pages on pricing ourselves out of the game?? I don't think we were the ones thumping...

If PNCL drags us down, I'd be happy to keep voting NO and keep our current contract as is. We don't need one contract, we've made it this far without.

 

And this should be good enough reason for pinnacle guys to vote no. They vote this in and get furloughed, their next regional will have a crappy contract modeled after the pinnacle bankruptcy TA. If they vote no and get furloughed, at least some of the regionals will still have bearable contracts.

 

Ha ha, couldn't get out of the out of the first paragraph. Did you mean We're and accept. I am not the best speller but after you lead your sentence by; listen here you smocks, listen to my superb post!

Ok, so you are the largest regional airline in the world, you have slightly over 400 aircraft on property but around 350 of them are of 50 seats or less. That's around 85% of your aircraft being of 50 seats or less as well as over 10 years old. You don't have an advantage over other airlines because you are larger. Pinnacle will be under the Delta umbrella and I am sure Delta can buy toilet paper cheaper that Expressjet because it's bigger, the same for Eagle and AMR. You are the biggest now, but don't expect to stay that way.

Face reality;

Eagle under a BK contract (our future is in the air/no fleet plan) Senior Pilot Group

Pinnacle either will vote the contract or the 1113 will be granted, will fly 76 seaters, and be careful because they might also fly 70 seaters and you know where those will come from. Senior Pilot Group

RAH bankruptcy like contract, bare bone operations and operates mostly 76 seaters. Senior-ish pilot group

GoJet bad contract, bare bone operations and operates 70 seaters. Junior pilot group, with room to grow?

Compass = contract not as bad as Gojet but not as good the SKW holdings regionals. And run by the same guy who owns Gojet/Tran-States, operates all 70/76 seaters. Junior pilot group, with room to grow?

That leaves the SKW regionals with more expensive contracts, over 75% of aircraft are 50 seaters or less, arguably the most senior pilot groups and.....

You say you are to big to fail, I say you are to big (50 seaters) and will fail. I am not sure if you can see the game management plays here, is there money savings out of the whipsaw, yes but this is a game for management. They play monopoly with the regionals. We are a contractor where the next guy is willing to do it cheaper to get the PIC or fly the shinny jet. None of us are exempt from this, stop drinking the cool-aid and open your eyes because after Pinnacle you are next not only form Delta, but United is mighty quite and you have the majority of the airplanes they want to park. I don't care what your contract says because execs will handle what happens not pilots and a trip thru the wash and rinse cycle of BK will take care of that. Mainline will do as it see fits, if you don't comply you will not exist in a few years, you might move on but the managers want a place to work as well as the lifers and the junior guys so the cards are against you. Stop drinking the cool-aid!

 

you just don't get it.....or they vote no and DL shuts them down and comes to you and says "you're next...take this paycut look what we already did to 2 other airlines...." And you big talkers will vote yes to save your job...