Originally Posted by somertime32

I am talking about say the last two pages of this thread, you are talking about the whole giant picture.

Originally Posted by Datsun

Concerning the XJT payscale:

If you convert it to per seat, "upgrading" from the 50 seater to the 7/9 is actually a pay -cut-. The only reason it comes out to more per hour is simply because the cut is offset by the amount of seats. Somebody correct these seat counts if necessary, but Delta's seat charts show the 7's as having 65, the 9's as having 76, and the 717 as having 110.

Consider these averages showing XJT seat/hr numbers vs. the DAL 717s:

-The ERJ/CR2 CA/FO difference is $0.07/$0.29 less per seat/hr.
-The CR7 CA/FO difference is $0.36/$0.42 less per seat/hr.
-The CR9 CA/FO difference is $0.55/$0.51 less per seat/hr.

The average of all this is (CA/FO) $0.33/$0.41 less per seat/hr.

I'm not familiar with XJT's CA/FO ratio. Using the APC listed pilot group count of 4633, assume the CA/FO split is 50/50 and tack the odd one to the FO side to get a 2316/2317 CA/FO count. It would cost a total of $1,542,825.00 per year more to match with mainline 717 seat/hr pay ($687,852.00 more to all CAs and $854,973.00 more to all FOs).

Compared to the numbers posted here, Delta Air Lines Announces June Quarter Profit - Jul 23, 2014 , that $1.54M it would take to match up doesn't seem like that much.

The small number on that site is $1.3B for 2Q 2014. That's 1,300 stacks of a millon dollars each. Can they not spare one and a half of those stacks in the name of a more productive workforce? Can they not spare twice ($3M) or even four times that ($6M)to take care of all our other non-pilot employees? Happy employees are productive, maybe even over-productive employees. Productive employees make happy customers. Happy customers mean more $$$. Sounds a lot like an investment.

DAL 2Q 2014 report shows they have already roughy doubled what they made this time last year. If this trend continues, they could double last year's $2.7B earnings which would be $5.4B. It probably won't be that dramatic, so more realistically they'll probably end up making, say $3.9B by the end of 2014.

But wait, if they spend $6M on XJT, then they'll be left with only $3.894B to work with!

God help us all if they straighten pay for the rest of their regional feed! If they spent $18M on the rest of them (gross overestimation here for effect), there'll only be $3.876B left! They'd be almost flat broke! Better invest in that "doomsday preppers" survival package!

Concerning UAL, they do not (yet) have a "regional replacement" size aircraft.

Concerning AAL, since XJT is starting to do work for them now, their E-190 scale shows those FOs make 3-4 cents less than the 50 seat FOs, and the CA's make a penny more than the CR9 CAs. (The E190 has 100 seats)

This "seat/hr" comparison may not be an all inclusive "way it is", but it does show that raising pay would not be as financially disastrous as some make it seem.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant

So if all of these other careers are so great and they make so much more money and this job sucks so much.....Why are y'all still here? Obviously y'all have it all figured out, so maybe you should jump the fence for some of that green grass...Just a thought...

Originally Posted by word302

This is a little dramatic. Tony made a ridiculous statement that other industries start back at bottom pay when moving to a new job. A bunch of us pointed out how silly his statement was. That is it.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant

So if all of these other careers are so great and they make so much more money and this job sucks so much.....Why are y'all still here? Obviously y'all have it all figured out, so maybe you should jump the fence for some of that green grass...Just a thought...

Originally Posted by captlonestar

The carrot is why we are still here. If it wasn't for the promise of a better career I, and most everyone else, would have been gone long ago. I'm trying hard to leave XJT Joe so you can fully engage in the whipsaw you want so badly.

Originally Posted by somertime32

Yes, they are both round and can be rolled or thrown at things.

Originally Posted by ross9238

What's with you anyway? You make assumptions about others and you "swung and missed". Get off your damn high horse already. If this is what you are doing in our negotiations, maybe it is time that we look at people who are more reasonable at the table negotiating for us. Just for your information, yes I'm on the ASA side.

Originally Posted by Captain Tony

Feel free to replace me. Step up to the plate. I am doing this as a service, I'd much rather fly 4 days and forget about this place the other three.