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Old 06-24-2018, 05:01 PM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrustyF15 View Post
Kronan - I dont think anyone is saying that the union shouldn’t spend money investigating ways to improve our total retirement... but two problems with the way they are going about it:
A. The deeper they have gone into the pockets, the more ownership they’ll have in the plan and less likely they will be able to call it a turd, if it is a turd. No knock on anyone in the process; that’s human nature.
2) Why haven’t they explored any other possibilities? At a focus mtg, I asked PM if they looked into any other options, modeled any other total retirement increases, and he said no... when asked why, the answer was simply, “we just haven’t”.
d - If it’s such a great deal for the company, why aren’t we asking for the moon? Why outside of section 6 negotiations, where we could ask for other contract fixes in exchange? Unless maybe it’s to get guys with three to five years left something on top of their already fully vested A plan...
To add to this excellent post here is a quote from the 1/31/17 positive rate titled Retirement Rumor Control:

Quote:
Research, education, and polling all come before negotiation, and we are still in the research phase. We are consulting with retirement industry experts in an effort to identify potentially viable improvements that would benefit everyone. If that effort proves successful, we will undertake a thorough education campaign regarding your current retirement plans as well as any potential alternatives, then survey you regarding your desires. Next comes the negotiating phase, but only once you've given your MEC the go-ahead. Finally, should negotiations result in a tentative agreement, your vote will be the final say in whether to accept or reject it.
I am still looking for potential alternatives.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:43 PM   #12  
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Thanks for starting a thread like this @Adlerdriver.

More than 1/3 of the pilots who will vote on the next contract will have been on property 5 years or less. I actually heard a statistic from a Union rep (not sure how accurate it actually is) that, if hiring and retirement continues at the predicted rate, in 2020 50% of the seniority list will have been on property 7 years or less.

Educating that part of the pilot group on the history of contract negotiation points is going to be crucial to the pilot group being both unified and making good decisions.

Unfortunately, it is on the veterans to grab your newbie FOs and start the conversations, because many of the new-ish hires don't even know the right questions to ask.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:36 AM   #13  
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I like long contracts. Gives ALPA fewer opportunities to screw it up. Sucks not getting a raise during amendable period but each contract has us giving up QOL for a 3-4% raise.

UPS has a built in raise every year during amendable period. Smart guys they are.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:47 PM   #14  
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Originally Posted by MEMA300 View Post
I like long contracts. Gives ALPA fewer opportunities to screw it up. Sucks not getting a raise during amendable period but each contract has us giving up QOL for a 3-4% raise.

UPS has a built in raise every year during amendable period. Smart guys they are.
ďThe company canít afford it, there no way the company would go for that.Ē Exact word from a few union guys when ask during negotiation. 😏
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:56 PM   #15  
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Default Stuck in coach on long DHs

I was hoping to keep this thread a contract resource rather than just another APC thread - not that the posts here aren't valuable. Maybe I can steer it back with this.

I've run across a few folks that didn't know about these two new CBA 2015 provisions:
1
8.A.5.d - basically states that scheduled DH tickets that require a higher class of service are to be purchased before tickets in a lower class of service.

Anyone else still waiting for a "higher class of service" DH ticket for July to be purchased? Got my coach tickets for DHs that happen after my higher class DH..... still waiting on my Biz class ticket. So - big surprise - lack of contract compliance by the company.

The most obvious problem with this is - by the time they get around to buying the ticket all the BC tickets are sold out. This may not be a huge deal if it's a front or back-end DH and you're planning to deviate anyway (in fact, it can be a bonus - more on that later). If it's a mid-trip you really weren't planning on deviating on or you live in MEM, it might be a really big deal.
So, if you find they continue to drag their feet on buying those higher class of service tickets (sometime for weeks after the bid closes) - get an Insite report in, document the event and send it to ALPA contract enforcement!!

A potential solution to being stuck in coach brings us to the next CBA 2015 provision some have not discovered yet.

2
8.C.3.a.vi - applies to deadheads over 10 hours of block. If you're stuck in coach, you can deviate and have your travel bank credited with 130% of the Established fare. Hopefully allowing you to find the proper class of service on another flight.

Things to think about with this:
1. If you're going to deviate anyway, this can be a nice bump to your travel bank. HOWEVER, if you deviate as soon as you get the trip and don't wait until they actually buy your scheduled DH ticket, you'll never know you were going to be stuck in coach. So, please do yourself a favor and don't deviate until your scheduled ticket is bought. Buy your deviations tickets, make your deviation plans - just don't go into VIPS and actually deviate until you know that status of your scheduled ticket.

2. If this opportunity presents itself, once you know you're stuck in coach - Deviate ASAP. If the wait-listed BC seat comes through and you haven't deviated, the 130% of Established fare is no longer on the table.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:02 PM   #16  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEMA300 View Post
UPS has a built in raise every year during amendable period. Smart guys they are.
Just 1 year last time around and not at all on this contract
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:41 PM   #17  
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Default Final Check-in & Deadhead Disruptions

Resurrecting this thread to bring some recent CRS shenanigans to light. Two recent hires on the 777 (less than 2 years on property) have similar events:
Both deviated, checked the box(es) in VIPS for all legs but found themselves in a position to perform their final check-in at the scheduled deadhead gate. Subsequently, they both encountered issues with the scheduled DH flight(s) they were on and were denied aid re-scheduling/revisions that would have been provided to someone who never deviated in the first place. (i.e. like it used to be on any deadhead under prior contracts)


CBA 2015 states: (8.C.1.d.iv.) Final deviation check-in may be accomplished if the deviating pilot joins the Company scheduled deadhead(s) and, as a result, he will arrive at the point of origin of the pilot’s first revenue flight or standby period as if the pilot had not deviated. Upon arrival at the departure gate of the scheduled deadhead flight, the pilot shall check-in with VIPS, or CRS if VIPS is not accessible, and indicate that he is in position for the scheduled deadhead flight. Once this check-in has been accomplished, the pilot shall no longer be considered as deviating, for the purposes of subsequent delays, revisions, and all trip services.
Example: The scheduled deadhead travel is MEM-ATL-CDG. The pilot
deviates and obtains a ticket to join the scheduled ATL-CDG flight. Final deviation check-in may be accomplished upon arrival at the departure gate for the CDG flight in the ATL airport


Note that there is no reference to whether or not a pilot has checked the deviation box for a specific deadhead segment in the “Deviation and Deadheads” section of VIPS in order to use the provisions of this section of the CBA. That is not part of the criteria. In fact, the above CBA passage makes two references to the fact that a pilot performing this Final Check-in using this option HAS deviated. The only thing not checking the deviation box for the final leg of the deadhead does is avoids auto-cancellation of GT services upon arrival. However, I have successfully requested these services be reinstated when I either accidentally or intentionally checked the deviation box for the final leg but was actually on that flight and performed my Final Check-in according to the CBA.

Two potential scenarios where this could be a factor (there may be others):
1) A pilot is in domicile but plans to deviate using a company jump seat. He checks the box to deviate all deadhead legs but re-buys the scheduled deadhead ticket to use as a backup in case the jump seat is delayed or cancelled. Due to jump seat issues, he uses his back-up plan.

2) A pilot is initially unable to get a ticket joining the scheduled deadhead as desired, so he deviates using another routing. Prior to departure, he is eventually able to find a ticket using the final segment of the scheduled deadhead flight and alters his deviation schedule.

In both cases above, the CBA allows the pilot to arrive at the departure gate for the scheduled deadhead leg and perform his Final Check-in, regardless of whether he has checked the deviation box for that leg (no mention of it at all). As indicated in the above CBA excerpt, after performing that Final Check-in, “the pilot is no longer considering as deviating for the purposes of subsequent delays, revisions and all trip services”.

Bottom line: If you have joined a segment of the scheduled deadhead and performed your Final Check-in in accordance with the CBA, do not let a scheduler tell you that they are not responsible for re-booking and/or re-scheduling you because you deviated (i.e. checked the box on that leg). The contract clearly states you are no longer considered as deviating - period. dot.

Please pass the word on this and make sure our new pilots are not being mis-directed by CRS attempting interpret this section of the CBA using old methods. They're spring loaded when a deadheading pilot calls with a disruption to see if there's a "$" by his name/flight and tell him the disruption is his problem because he deviated.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:37 PM   #18  
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I had a situation recently where I didnít uncheck the second box (didnít know that was a thing) and did my final check in at the gate. Everything fine until my scheduled dh flight air returned and cancelled. When I called, CRS said I had deviated and am responsible to get to the destination. I explained it a couple times until I was transferred to duty officer. When he came on the phone, he just took care of the situation without me explaining anything.
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Old 03-03-2019, 03:20 PM   #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FXLAX View Post
I had a situation recently where I didnít uncheck the second box (didnít know that was a thing) and did my final check in at the gate. Everything fine until my scheduled dh flight air returned and cancelled. When I called, CRS said I had deviated and am responsible to get to the destination. I explained it a couple times until I was transferred to duty officer. When he came on the phone, he just took care of the situation without me explaining anything.
I'm glad you were able to resolve the situation. My point is that a newer pilot may not know enough to push the issue which based on my small sample has happened at least twice. Your event makes three. It shouldn't get to the point where anyone has to push the issue up to the DO and in my opinion has risen to the point of grievance. In this case, the CBA is clear and unambiguous.
At the very least, I think you should file an Insight report and make sure you forward it to contract enforcement. They'll never know this stuff is happening unless we document it.
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:40 PM   #20  
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Once again it's the company being nit picky when it comes to a crew member having a problem, but they beg and plead or declare an operational emergency if something goes wrong on their end of the deal.
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