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Considering jumping ship

Old 01-17-2020, 07:28 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Noworkallplay View Post
A 40 year down turn?

How was the guys career at AA?
The first 10 years were probably terrible.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:45 PM
  #22  
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Just had a similar conversation with a friend who has been here just over a year. I don't think many people who have been here less than 2 years will say this is the best place to work. Its always the senior guys who say that. The problem now, is due to the slowdown in hiring, you might be at the bottom for much longer than expected. It's also hard to pass up rapid seniority at other carriers just from massive retirements each year alone. And he lives in the base of a top pax carrier. Someone said it earlier about the difference in trips being junior versus senior here compared to pax carriers as they are not much different therre as compared to here. I honestly couldn't come up with any compelling reasons for telling him to stay here based on his personal circumstances.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:02 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Noworkallplay View Post
A 40 year down turn?

How was the guys career at AA?
.


Of course not every year for 40 years. It is a metaphor relating to a story. The airlines struggled since deregulation in 1978 (which fedex was huge beneficiary) until late 2000 teens when some MBA figured to charge for bags. Since then they have turned a profit...

Fedex will have to fight hard to stay competative and maybe to even stay in business. Some ppl here sound like some Eastern guys I used to know...
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:00 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by PolicyWonk View Post
Stay at FedEx. We are still profitable.

At some time in the future, a Von Mises crack up boom or a Hyman Minsky moment will come. You'd rather be here than a pax carrier when society figures out that the pancakes they've stacked have flattened to the thickness of tortillas. And the consequences of government debt cannot be put off forever.

The barriers to entry in this business will enable us to survive more easily than the passenger carriers. Much of the passenger carrying is discretionary travel. Much of the business travel could go to video conferencing in a depression. But I doubt Brick and Mortar will make a comeback.

Still, more freight will move to trucks. And ships. I couldn't foresee the impact of a bigger and better Panama Canal when I came here.

​​​​But the barriers to entry in this business are sizeable. After the next downturn, I doubt Amazon's access to capital will be as easy as it has been till now. Their profitability may not be sufficient to fund their desired expansion of infrastructure.
As long as AWS continues to be the mega cash cow, Amazon will continue to finance their growth. If you dig into their financial statements, the cash flow generated by AWS is impressive, that is why we all should be rooting for Microsoft’s cloud business!! No airline/logistics/ transportation company has ever had that kind of financial muscle behind it.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:18 PM
  #25  
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I turned down a fedex interview a couple of years ago and regret it. I left an ACMI carrier and was totally sick of night flying. So I offer the following view:

-You will spend a lot of your seniority on avoiding weekends and holidays at a pax carrier. At my airline it takes about 50% to avoid those things as a line holder, less so as a reserve pilot and depending on your base you could be sitting reserve Mon-Fri at 75% or higher. I have heard from a FedEx buddy there isnt much weekend/holiday flying and thats a HUGE plus.

-You will have to spend time dealing with TSA and crowded airports. At Fedex, not so much

-Commuting has been relatively painless (I throw that out there because some guys act like commuting at a pax carrier is the end of the world, it is way easier than I ever imagined)

-I actually like having FA's now, makes life interesting but that is an FO perspective.
-multiple legs per day on junior trips. I dont like anything greater than 2 legs a day. 1 is what I really want, much like you Fedex guys. takes some serious seniority to get 1 leg trips all month.

-I will say that on the outside looking in, I find it hard to believe there is that much purely day flying at Fedex. At the pax carriers you can have redeyes (especially west coast bases) BUT they are never more than 1 leg or guys would fatique them. They are also easy, easy to avoid because many commuters want them so you usually cant get them unless you are senior (east coast bases). If a flight takes off at midnight and flies to noon with sunrise being 6am are you guys calling that 50% day flying? Well, to me that isnt day flying, that horrible (not sure if that applies, just was my experience at ACMI)

-a pension is priceless. 50K a year pension is worth in my view about 1.5 million dollars in a 401K. Even with a 16% DC you aint getting 1.5 million in a 401K at a pax carrier for a long time.

Thought about reapplying to Fedex but hiring has basically stopped, I am older than most guys, plus I do have lots of guys below me at my carrier so it would be stupid to start over. I highly suggest you stay at Fedex.

Sorry for jumping on your thread, just sharing thoughts from the other side.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:07 PM
  #26  
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This is a good discussion.

About 18 months ago I turned down United for FedEx. I lived in a UAL base, so it was not an easy decision. However, having spent 7+ years of flying for United at a UEX carrier, I was absolutely sick of dealing with a dysfunctional airline, ungrateful pax, and often difficult/annoying FAs. Finally, the pension at FDX was WAY too good to pass up, as it gave me a chance to finally (and conservatively) be on track for retirement as a 40ish guy.

That said, during IOE at FDX, we wondered into a hotel at 5 am looking like complete crap, having just finished a brutal EWR 3 leg hub turn. We looked like garbage, and I could literally feel my body rejecting that kind of exhaustion like a sickness. It isn’t good, and doing that kind of stuff consistently will kill you. Anyway, as we walked into the hotel, there was a UAL crew looking fresh and chipper, getting ready to do their nice day trip. I REALLY regretted that decision to come to FDX at that moment.

Fortunately my schedules quickly improved, and I rarely feel like my rest is pushed to the limit. This is a pretty easy job for the most part, provided you do your best to take care of sleep as needed. My schedule is outstanding, and my experience with the vacation here has been absolutely incredible.

So do I regret not going to UAL? I still have days that I do, but then again I think I would’ve been very dissatisfied doing the same crap I was already doing, especially as passengers continue to become crazier and more entitled. I’ve also been able to witness the powerful international network FedEx has, and it truly is impressive and Amazon does NOT do what we do.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:22 PM
  #27  
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Totally understand your frustration. I was there! I haven’t been here too long but long enough to say that it’s been awesome...after probation lol. Wait for year 2 pay to kick in. Also, you’ll have more vacation after year 1. Ask and listen to the junior captains you fly with (or BI buddies) on how the SLG can really help your schedule. My training partner in Indoc said you’ll make a lot of mistakes in your bid & scheduling your first year...learn from them and shape your schedule better next time. I’ve made tons of mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20 for me! This really is an airline that can accommodate a wide array of desires. And I sure as heck DON’T want a “normal” flying schedule some of my friends have at the legacies. For example I’m averaging less than 200 hours/year flying here. I have a friend who just bragged about flying 500 hours the last 6 months at SWA...uhh...no thanks. Good luck with your decision. It’s a great market for pilots
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:27 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Armyguy View Post
I turned down a fedex interview a couple of years ago and regret it. I left an ACMI carrier and was totally sick of night flying. So I offer the following view:

-You will spend a lot of your seniority on avoiding weekends and holidays at a pax carrier. At my airline it takes about 50% to avoid those things as a line holder, less so as a reserve pilot and depending on your base you could be sitting reserve Mon-Fri at 75% or higher. I have heard from a FedEx buddy there isnt much weekend/holiday flying and thats a HUGE plus.

-You will have to spend time dealing with TSA and crowded airports. At Fedex, not so much

-Commuting has been relatively painless (I throw that out there because some guys act like commuting at a pax carrier is the end of the world, it is way easier than I ever imagined)

-I actually like having FA's now, makes life interesting but that is an FO perspective.
-multiple legs per day on junior trips. I dont like anything greater than 2 legs a day. 1 is what I really want, much like you Fedex guys. takes some serious seniority to get 1 leg trips all month.

-I will say that on the outside looking in, I find it hard to believe there is that much purely day flying at Fedex. At the pax carriers you can have redeyes (especially west coast bases) BUT they are never more than 1 leg or guys would fatique them. They are also easy, easy to avoid because many commuters want them so you usually cant get them unless you are senior (east coast bases). If a flight takes off at midnight and flies to noon with sunrise being 6am are you guys calling that 50% day flying? Well, to me that isnt day flying, that horrible (not sure if that applies, just was my experience at ACMI)

-a pension is priceless. 50K a year pension is worth in my view about 1.5 million dollars in a 401K. Even with a 16% DC you aint getting 1.5 million in a 401K at a pax carrier for a long time.

Thought about reapplying to Fedex but hiring has basically stopped, I am older than most guys, plus I do have lots of guys below me at my carrier so it would be stupid to start over. I highly suggest you stay at Fedex.

Sorry for jumping on your thread, just sharing thoughts from the other side.
Great perspective. I was at another major prior to FedEx. Maybe even the one your at it sounds like. As a Jr guy I was getting red eyes. Keep in mind the reason most of them were only one leg was bc they were trans cons on 3/4 trans cons. So not enough duty time to hub turn usually. The company didn't not build them with more than one leg bc they were worried about fatigue, they did it because it was either over the max FDP or it was within the "buffer" of the FDP restriction.

I couldn't agree more with your pension statement. Its one of the biggest reasons I left. Our pension at Purple is 130k a year as long as you do 25 years of service and hit 5 years of earning greater than 260. My financial guy valued it at around 3 million if you were to try to offset it with a 401k only plan.

Its funny but we all do it. We look at other places and go "what if". Being Jr and commuting to night hub turns at FedEx can be exhausting and I can see how it can beat you down. However, once you get out of the bottom 30% there is no better place. Living in base solves a lot of things also.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:41 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Noworkallplay View Post
Great perspective. I was at another major prior to FedEx. Maybe even the one your at it sounds like. As a Jr guy I was getting red eyes. Keep in mind the reason most of them were only one leg was bc they were trans cons on 3/4 trans cons. So not enough duty time to hub turn usually. The company didn't not build them with more than one leg bc they were worried about fatigue, they did it because it was either over the max FDP or it was within the "buffer" of the FDP restriction.

I couldn't agree more with your pension statement. Its one of the biggest reasons I left. Our pension at Purple is 130k a year as long as you do 25 years of service and hit 5 years of earning greater than 260. My financial guy valued it at around 3 million if you were to try to offset it with a 401k only plan.

Its funny but we all do it. We look at other places and go "what if". Being Jr and commuting to night hub turns at FedEx can be exhausting and I can see how it can beat you down. However, once you get out of the bottom 30% there is no better place. Living in base solves a lot of things also.
Again, more good perspective.

Ultimately, I think we’re all competitive people. We see friends at DL/UA, whether us via social media, in passing, etc, and we only see the best parts of that job. We don’t see the less than ideal times when they might be question their own decision to go to that company.

I can see how one would get down commuting into RA, spending the weekend in Flint in January while all your buddies are in Cabo or San Diego for their nice layover. But, there are times I go to work at FedEx and laugh because the trip with all it’s built in soft-time is so easy. Whether it’s starting from home, first class ticket to finish, one leg during the day time. We really do have some good stuff here!
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:59 AM
  #30  
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I totally understand your concern about the company. We were at the top of the heap in so many ways, and now, not only are we falling behind other carriers, it looks like we have overhired. We are overcapacity by a long shot, earnings have been worse than expected for some time, and there's the fear that Amazon is eating our lunch. If I was fairly junior, I would be worried, especially if I'm passing up opportunities while the pax carriers are hiring like crazy. Fred will likely retire soon, God help us. It's a tough call.


On the positive side, we do have many scheduled retirements, we've never furloughed, and people are always going to want their stuff. I never understood why people hung onto their reserve/guard jobs while working for this company, but I do now. Personally, if I was looking elsewhere, I'd look at Delta, because I think they will be around for a long time. I avoid American and United, because every time it seems to be an unpleasant or mediocre experience. Delta gets me there every time, and it's a minimum of hassle, if one has to be a passenger. Seems that would be a good strategy if you want to stick around for the long term, Delta seems to have it down. And their profit sharing? Wow.


It is so unfortunate the junior pilots even have to consider this.
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