Nothing on the NC resignations
12-21-2023, 07:33 PM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,196
Originally Posted by opas76
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we need 2 consecutive months below SAM before entering 4a2b? We’re still above SAM for January 2024.
Sort of related but the company put itself in a square corner with how it manned the 777. It's really the only aircraft in the fleet that isn't overmanned. So they really don't want to go into 4a2b or c, and definitely don't want to furlough because they can't afford to lose the manning in the 777. So their current solution is a realignment bid this Spring, with very heavy training to get more senior people onto the airplane. That will give them more flexibility to reduce flying across the board. From there, it seems like the whole SAM concept is very easily manipulated by the company to do whatever they want. The scheduling committee put out a good email on it last July. Not sure if this link will work.
SAM discussion.
12-21-2023, 10:36 PM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by Rock
Good point. Just looked it up. Let's hope February stays the same.
Sort of related but the company put itself in a square corner with how it manned the 777. It's really the only aircraft in the fleet that isn't overmanned. So they really don't want to go into 4a2b or c, and definitely don't want to furlough because they can't afford to lose the manning in the 777. So their current solution is a realignment bid this Spring, with very heavy training to get more senior people onto the airplane. That will give them more flexibility to reduce flying across the board. From there, it seems like the whole SAM concept is very easily manipulated by the company to do whatever they want. The scheduling committee put out a good email on it last July. Not sure if this link will work.
SAM discussion.
Sort of related but the company put itself in a square corner with how it manned the 777. It's really the only aircraft in the fleet that isn't overmanned. So they really don't want to go into 4a2b or c, and definitely don't want to furlough because they can't afford to lose the manning in the 777. So their current solution is a realignment bid this Spring, with very heavy training to get more senior people onto the airplane. That will give them more flexibility to reduce flying across the board. From there, it seems like the whole SAM concept is very easily manipulated by the company to do whatever they want. The scheduling committee put out a good email on it last July. Not sure if this link will work.
SAM discussion.
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
12-22-2023, 03:16 AM
#144
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Moosefire
That seemed like a very convinient leak when I heard it. Wonder if F&H helped write the script.
maybe it's all real, but it certainly feels like part of the psyop.
maybe it's all real, but it certainly feels like part of the psyop.
12-22-2023, 04:12 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
Posts: 829
Is that Dimento talking and is it to Chief pilots?
Originally Posted by Otterbox
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3tllo...i5u0hs1ay&dl=0
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
12-22-2023, 07:17 AM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
Risky Business
I sure you hope you had the permission of all involved recording and posting proprietary information. From what I have heard, people have been fired for less....It may be legal in TN, but it is most likely actionable employment wise.....bad headwork!
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
Originally Posted by Otterbox
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
12-22-2023, 07:21 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
Originally Posted by Spot13
Laughing Jackal, ask to look at the NC books. That is just the start, so much more I have but you can do the research.
I bet you are D.U. a "good" Christian with no honor. Did you join PD, PM, CN, NC, and RS taking the new cfo out to eat after the cfo signed the $4.3 million stock bonus?
I bet you are D.U. a "good" Christian with no honor. Did you join PD, PM, CN, NC, and RS taking the new cfo out to eat after the cfo signed the $4.3 million stock bonus?
Actually I am a soiled individual and that's why I am a Christian. I do know enough not to make unsupported libelous allegations. I don't need to do homework on this matter, you're the one that made the allegations. Hopefully you aren't engaging in creative satire and have the receipts....you may find that you need them to defend yourself in future litigation. And am no longer a member of Ducks Unlimited...the only DU I know.
Last edited by Laughing_Jakal; 12-22-2023 at 07:40 AM.
12-22-2023, 09:50 AM
#148
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by Otterbox
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3tllo...i5u0hs1ay&dl=0
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
4a2b/c discussion starts around the 5 minute mark. Later discussion about how going to 4a2c is cheaper than offering early retirement package or furloughing 200 pilots.
Projected Loss of 50% of Day time flying around the 16-17 minute mark.
Scaring the crap out of young folks to leave FedEx (70 so far) at the 19 minute mark.
Discussion of TA. No plan to seek getting more from money the company but instead focusing on funds shifting around for higher pay rates and retro and less focus on retirement and other potential work rule concessions (looking at the 777 fleet) to get there at around the 30 minute mark.
Discussion of goal of TA1 was to close loopholes that increased premium pay for pilots at 38minute mark. With discussion of concessions fallout after.
Discussion of potential no furlough clause around 48 minutes.
Discussion of not passing TA could jeopardizes options for 26 767s at 50minute mark.
It sounds like PD would be more than happy to remove the QOL givebacks from TA1.0 due to the massive blowback and limited company gains.
Scope issues sounds like something we can resolve to the satisfaction of both company and ALPA. This scope discussion near the end was good to hear (if true).
No discussion on splitting the force via sunsetting the a-plan, but I did skip some slower parts. As an aside, my understanding is that we got $0.00 "credit" for splitting and sunsetting the a-plan in TA1.0. As in the $3.8B PM and ALPA touted didn't include ANY added money for pilots in exchange for releasing (in the future) the company from this subtantial obligation. Reason given in a separate forum was it's too hard to cost out the benefit to the company 10-15 years from now, when the a-plan would likely be fully phased out. I think this was the most "unconscionable" and overlooked issues of TA1.0!!! IF we sunset the a-plan, it should be an enormous windfall for the pilots.
From this discussion, I DEFINITELY expect the company to want to reach TA2.0 (TA1.1) by just moving money around bucket to bucket. Likely out of the A plan increases....and Block overages. PD said if the $$$ from overages were shifted to hourly rates, we'd easily be on par with Delta pay. Of course it'd be coming out of (predominately) 777 paychecks and spread to the rest of the crew force as I understand it. I'm not saying I'm for or against it, but it'll be something the NC, MEC, and potentially the crew force will have to decide in the future. If we get scope resolved, and QOL givebacks removed, and past NC/MEC, I expect this to be the major debate for TA1.1/2.0.
12-22-2023, 10:21 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by FedUpWilson318
Pretty good discussion, worth a listen. It didn't sound like propaganda to me. PD even said please don't post details on social media. Ironically, it helped alleviate a few of my concerns with TA1.0.
It sounds like PD would be more than happy to remove the QOL givebacks from TA1.0 due to the massive blowback and limited company gains.
Scope issues sounds like something we can resolve to the satisfaction of both company and ALPA. This scope discussion near the end was good to hear (if true).
No discussion on splitting the force via sunsetting the a-plan, but I did skip some slower parts. As an aside, my understanding is that we got $0.00 "credit" for splitting and sunsetting the a-plan in TA1.0. As in the $3.8B PM and ALPA touted didn't include ANY added money for pilots in exchange for releasing (in the future) the company from this subtantial obligation. Reason given in a separate forum was it's too hard to cost out the benefit to the company 10-15 years from now, when the a-plan would likely be fully phased out. I think this was the most "unconscionable" and overlooked issues of TA1.0!!! IF we sunset the a-plan, it should be an enormous windfall for the pilots.
From this discussion, I DEFINITELY expect the company to want to reach TA2.0 (TA1.1) by just moving money around bucket to bucket. Likely out of the A plan increases....and Block overages. PD said if the $$$ from overages were shifted to hourly rates, we'd easily be on par with Delta pay. Of course it'd be coming out of (predominately) 777 paychecks and spread to the rest of the crew force as I understand it. I'm not saying I'm for or against it, but it'll be something the NC, MEC, and potentially the crew force will have to decide in the future. If we get scope resolved, and QOL givebacks removed, and past NC/MEC, I expect this to be the major debate for TA1.1/2.0.
It sounds like PD would be more than happy to remove the QOL givebacks from TA1.0 due to the massive blowback and limited company gains.
Scope issues sounds like something we can resolve to the satisfaction of both company and ALPA. This scope discussion near the end was good to hear (if true).
No discussion on splitting the force via sunsetting the a-plan, but I did skip some slower parts. As an aside, my understanding is that we got $0.00 "credit" for splitting and sunsetting the a-plan in TA1.0. As in the $3.8B PM and ALPA touted didn't include ANY added money for pilots in exchange for releasing (in the future) the company from this subtantial obligation. Reason given in a separate forum was it's too hard to cost out the benefit to the company 10-15 years from now, when the a-plan would likely be fully phased out. I think this was the most "unconscionable" and overlooked issues of TA1.0!!! IF we sunset the a-plan, it should be an enormous windfall for the pilots.
From this discussion, I DEFINITELY expect the company to want to reach TA2.0 (TA1.1) by just moving money around bucket to bucket. Likely out of the A plan increases....and Block overages. PD said if the $$$ from overages were shifted to hourly rates, we'd easily be on par with Delta pay. Of course it'd be coming out of (predominately) 777 paychecks and spread to the rest of the crew force as I understand it. I'm not saying I'm for or against it, but it'll be something the NC, MEC, and potentially the crew force will have to decide in the future. If we get scope resolved, and QOL givebacks removed, and past NC/MEC, I expect this to be the major debate for TA1.1/2.0.
12-22-2023, 10:37 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Crewmember
Posts: 1,381
Originally Posted by BlueAvi8tor
Id be good with being rid of BO 8/10 of they would actually give everyone decent pay rates.
I would vote NO if they reduce the A plan bump and/or give away BKO. We would be idiots for doing that.
How about an ALPA survey that asks those specific questions? I am betting the triple guys would vote HELL NO if you did that.
The MEC, and the NC SHOULD NOT entertain giving away BKO. That is a non-starter.
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