318 Tools at Flexjet Vote Union Out
06-02-2018, 05:45 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by Fredturbo
Yup. Fox in henhouse. That is all.
Over/under on days before “WTF just happened?” is first said?
Over/under on days before “WTF just happened?” is first said?
06-02-2018, 06:34 AM
#64
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Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by FNGFO
It was already said when the 20 FJ pilots who lost 5%in the ISL just realized that they just lost another 100 slots to transfers who came over from the other side. Talk about stepping on your own crank.
The knife of union experience cuts both ways.
06-02-2018, 07:53 AM
#66
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Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by Route66
Transfer pilots don’t see it that way. They don’t agree with YOUR union. With YOUR union only YOU can see beauty. Everyone else is anti-union. You don’t have an ISL anymore. Strip them of their LOS and see what happens. The wheels fall off.
The knife of union experience cuts both ways.
The knife of union experience cuts both ways.
06-02-2018, 08:25 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by FNGFO
You truly don’t understand. The solution of the decerters is to trust Ken Ricci. There is no overcoming this position. It’s indefensible based on his lengthy and consistent track record. Only a staunchly anti union group like Flex that never bothered to watch the industry around them would fall for his BS, and then only after 1/5th of the group had left, and transfers/furloughees had been brought over to undermine the movement.
I’m telling you now, because I was there. I sat there in training when we laughed out loud at our supposed competitor Flight Options. Every one of us saw their bedraggled pilots, shoddy equipment and sorry hotel arrangements. And even having seen that the group would rather tilt to that side than even give the union a chance.
And make no mistake. This wasn’t an informed group coming to a hard decision. I can promise you that 90% of the decerters never paid their dues, bothered to read union email updates, participated in the process or volunteered to do anything but keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand.
Well, when you stick you head in the sand you expose your a$$. And Mr. Ricci is well versed in taking advantage of that situation.
Again, I don’t fault you for not knowing, but the fact is you truly don’t know what went down nor are you remotely familiar with the Flex pilot group. In one fell swoop they made pariahs of themselves while sentencing their company to a painful death. They cannot grow. They cannot attract. And they cannot retain. They’re done. It’s all over but the crying, and they voted it upon themselves.
I’m telling you now, because I was there. I sat there in training when we laughed out loud at our supposed competitor Flight Options. Every one of us saw their bedraggled pilots, shoddy equipment and sorry hotel arrangements. And even having seen that the group would rather tilt to that side than even give the union a chance.
And make no mistake. This wasn’t an informed group coming to a hard decision. I can promise you that 90% of the decerters never paid their dues, bothered to read union email updates, participated in the process or volunteered to do anything but keep their heads firmly stuck in the sand.
Well, when you stick you head in the sand you expose your a$$. And Mr. Ricci is well versed in taking advantage of that situation.
Again, I don’t fault you for not knowing, but the fact is you truly don’t know what went down nor are you remotely familiar with the Flex pilot group. In one fell swoop they made pariahs of themselves while sentencing their company to a painful death. They cannot grow. They cannot attract. And they cannot retain. They’re done. It’s all over but the crying, and they voted it upon themselves.
I was at original Piedmont, then US Air, then US Airways and now American. The whipsaw is alive and well over here, no different than Flexjet/Options. Just in size and scope. Parker knows how to divide the group. It’s called “adapt and go”. Does anyone ever think that maybe were playing on the wrong side of the fence. I mean, if you can’t beat them, join them?
You say the end is near for Ricci and his ilk. They (pilots) always say the the same thing about all managements in the past. They’re still here and pilots keep doing the same ole same ole.
I just finished reading the book “We the Corporations”. It’s legal stuff but historically well written. Did pilots ever think that an association is the wrong way to go and incorporating the profession the right way?
The RLA that came about when Beneke started ALPA isn’t working for us in the 21st century. Maybe it’s time to start thinking outside the box. There’s many of us over at American that feel the same way.
The transferees don’t feel that way. Whether you agree with them or not, the problem is that maybe when an arbitrator strips them of LOS, (whether you believe he did or not, THEY believe he did). Would it have been a smart move to agree with their position on LOS and try to find common ground elsewhere? Instead of arbitration? I can tell you for a FACT arbitration destroyed unity here, it will do it at Alaska/Virgin and it will happen again as long as management knows pilot groups at different carriers have no SOP’s (read leadership and principles here) from a national organization that can serve as a cornerstone for the value each pilot brings to the whole.
ALPA merger policy, Mccaskill/Bond are poor bandaids to what really needs to occur: a policy that sets in stone how pilots are to be valued across industry lines.....and stick to it.
Tall order I know, but that’s the crux of it. Solve that and you solve your disunity.
06-02-2018, 08:27 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by FNGFO
My “union” is Alpa, and you’re just a non affiliated tool who likes to stir ****** up. You didn’t even know the specifics of the situation until I filled in a few of the blanks for you.
06-02-2018, 08:36 AM
#69
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Route66
Well, here is what I DO know: 1108 lost. Rick Dubinsky was bad at United and he's worst at Teamsters. Again, what you describe, if true reveals that as long as pilots wish to remain uninformed then they will get what they negotiate. But lets not blame or throw stones at each other. Pilots are human and put their pants on the same way as the rest of the worlds population does.
It might be high time for the union movement to access there position in the world and maybe ask those that voted no to the union what solutions they would offer to help improve the situation. Would that be too much to ask?
It might be high time for the union movement to access there position in the world and maybe ask those that voted no to the union what solutions they would offer to help improve the situation. Would that be too much to ask?
Last edited by Windshear; 06-02-2018 at 08:50 AM.
06-02-2018, 09:51 AM
#70
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Cabin Temp Management Specialist
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by Windshear
The only group Rick Dubinsky would have been bad at United for are SCABS. Did you cross a picket line Route66?
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