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Fractional NetJets, FlexJet, etc

Which Fractional?

Old 08-29-2018, 03:46 AM
  #21  
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If you want airline, go regional. Dot go fractional. We want you if you want business avaition.

XO Jet just filed FRP... they are running out of options. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal

In fact, if I were current XO, I’d be looking at NetJets unless my plan was to go airline.

Flex is not on par with NJA and with no Union, never will be. Zero protections for pilots, pay, working conditions, etc. pay is better at NetJets hands down, you fly a wealthier portfolio which means more stability for the next downturn in the economy.

NetJets is backed by Warren Buffett. Think... deep pockets if the fit hits the shan economically. A great peace of mind. The folks you fill fly are generally leaders of industry and that’s why they fly the leader to enjoyvall of the benefotsbthatvcome with it... safety, service, schedule and recovery ability when something breaks. The educated Owner knows this... most can afford it.

Additionally, upgrade at NetJets is 4.5 years at the current rate of upgrades. That’s a long wait for those already in the que for 10+ years. It’s not for a new hire.

Last edited by CaFarful; 08-29-2018 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:11 AM
  #22  
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FWIW, there are Flex pilots leaving to go to NetJets.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:34 AM
  #23  
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This question is highly dependent on personal situation, personal decisions, likes and dislikes ect. If it have decided you want to work for a fractional/135, then my personal opinion is XO is the best. While no company is perfect the best idea is to get the pros and cons, figure out which ones you can deal with which ones you can’t, and what works for you overall. I have worked for 2 similar companies and have friends at all 3 of the big ones and some at smaller ones.

If you look at the majority of threads on this site, it’s an absolute ***** fest. You can look at the *****ing on the xo tread and see that it is far less than any other thread. While there are always things to complain about and things to improve i really that everyone i fly with here has a positive attitude, and that makes the time spent on the road much more
Enjoyable. Most people here have confidence in our management whom are very pro employee and pro company in most cases. There is no hate and disention towards the pilot group here. We have the best QOL on the road by far, rental cars whenever we want no questions asked, nice hotels, generous crew meal expenses and while we do work hard here, there is quite a bit of support. The people make it that much easier and bearable during the long tough days. We do get time occasionally to go have fun on the road and make the best out of every day. We do not sit standby at the FBO all day like most other companies. If you assume a 2 ur upgrade here you will make more money than any other similar company, including net jets in the first 5 years (I have a detailed spreadsheet on this) and possibly even longer. We do not have as good of vacation, insurance or 401k as NJ or flex flops. Our “home basing” can be mind bending depending on where you live. Aquiring new investors is a big question for all but IMo the general consensus falls back
To the confidence in management. Our ceo is heavily invested in the company and the culture, as are we are as well. If your goal is themmajors i truly don’t believe you’ll find a better place to hang your hat for 5 years or whatever you want out of it. I really enjoy working here, and improvements are being made in various capacities on almost a daily basis.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:37 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by RiverRnr5 View Post
I had been considering FlexJet since they had been advertising a roughly 3 year upgrade to captain. Or XOJet since they have been advertising a 1-2 year upgrade to captain. Each place has a descent home basing option, which is something I want. The type of equipment doesn’t matter to me much at this point. I am sure that opinion will change as i gain more experience in the fractional world. I am also open to other larger stable part135 operators as well. An honest opinion of a newer guy at Flex would be awesome. I usually rely on a friend at the company to give me a good honest opinion, however i do not know anyone over at Flex to ask that.
You may want to ask why there are pilots at Flexjet for 13 plus years and still are FO's 13 plus years later.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:40 AM
  #25  
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Just curious-in what way is XO Jet running out of options? Pilots? Cash Flow?

I know company I work for is doing a lot of supplemental lift for XO.

Originally Posted by CaFarful View Post
If you want airline, go regional. Dot go fractional. We want you if you want business avaition.

XO Jet just filed FRP... they are running out of options. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_proposal

In fact, if I were current XO, I’d be looking at NetJets unless my plan was to go airline.

Flex is not on par with NJA and with no Union, never will be. Zero protections for pilots, pay, working conditions, etc. pay is better at NetJets hands down, you fly a wealthier portfolio which means more stability for the next downturn in the economy.

NetJets is backed by Warren Buffett. Think... deep pockets if the fit hits the shan economically. A great peace of mind. The folks you fill fly are generally leaders of industry and that’s why they fly the leader to enjoyvall of the benefotsbthatvcome with it... safety, service, schedule and recovery ability when something breaks. The educated Owner knows this... most can afford it.

Additionally, upgrade at NetJets is 4.5 years at the current rate of upgrades. That’s a long wait for those already in the que for 10+ years. It’s not for a new hire.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fooled2x View Post
FWIW, there are Flex pilots leaving to go to NetJets.
If this is true, they are very junior. Otherwise, making a lateral move hoping for greener pastures isn’t smart. You still have to wait in line to upgrade no matter where you are.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:08 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by RiverRnr5 View Post
So lets get this thread on a different track. Since I would agree that Fractional flying isn’t for everyone and not the best way to a Major. If you want to make it a career spot, with a faster upgrade, and make a bit more cash, what’s the best landing spot? Assuming you could pick anyone of them. Home based, roughly 7/7 or 8/6, or a combination/biding style schedule.
Net jets hands down. I wouldn’t suggest Flexjet to my ex wife until Ricci and current management- from chief pilots up- are gone.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:10 AM
  #28  
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Default Something to ponder....

Most people don’t think of the customer service aspect of the business when they are thinking about or actively learning to fly. They are thinking about compensation, schedule, QOL, how cool it would be to fly airplanes, etc.

If you are not a customer service oriented person and you would rather not offer personalized service, than you are better suited to slug it out the regionals and wait in line for the majors, rather than go to the fractionals.

For me, I chose The fractionals (Flexjet) and love it. I never had a desire to work for the airlines. But, I suppose if the rug was pulled out from under me, I’d go that route.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:22 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Fly Dog View Post
Most people don’t think of the customer service aspect of the business when they are thinking about or actively learning to fly. They are thinking about compensation, schedule, QOL, how cool it would be to fly airplanes, etc.

If you are not a customer service oriented person and you would rather not offer personalized service, than you are better suited to slug it out the regionals and wait in line for the majors, rather than go to the fractionals.

For me, I chose The fractionals (Flexjet) and love it. I never had a desire to work for the airlines. But, I suppose if the rug was pulled out from under me, I’d go that route.
You're going to work much, much harder at a fractional. Frankly, frac pilots are grossly underpaid given the amount of work and responsibility that is heaped on their shoulders. And frankly, most of them don't fully appreciate it until they leave the frac world.

Also, I understand the personalized service angle to a degree. I generally don't know my pax at the majors whereas I was often on a first name basis with my owners in the Frac world, and new a bit about their families, business and get away spots as well as preferences with regard to personal amenities, catering, etc... Having said that, the personalized service that is so well honed in the frac world doesn't go away when you get to a major unless you let it. I see it missing in a lot of the always 121 partners I fly with, but I move bags, interact with pax, walk them to a gate, provide information etc as much as I ever did in the 91k/135 world. I'm just not expected to clean up after them do lavs or work on their destination arrangements like I was in the frac world. Customer service is a personal decision, and not a who employs me decision.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:32 AM
  #30  
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The other thing to consider is long term stability. Netjets is much larger than all the others combined, is part of a publicly traded company, and has a union contract protecting the pilot jobs. All good things and I think we can all agree it’s a long term career destination (if you like that type of flying). I can’t speak much to XOjets financial situation but they are a privately held company. Long term staying power? Depends who you ask. Flexjet seems to be in a good financial situation, also privately held, but will one day be owned by Notre Dame. And what the heck are they going to do with it?

https://news.nd.edu/news/notre-dame-...ur-kenn-ricci/

“Upon Ricci’s death, Notre Dame will receive beneficial rights to a limited partnership interest and become the partnership’s successor general partner. The University will hold the controlling interest and have responsibility for the valuation, liquidation and distribution of the partnership’s assets, providing incentive to maximize their value.”
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