F224

Here is an excellent article about big labor, and the law of unintended consequences; Articles: Union Blues

Soon, when the union shops no longer have private health insurance, as I mentioned in a previous post, the only benefits that will be necessary to keep any union off the property will be legal representation plans and long term disability coverage.

DWS1

True, most recent pilot groups to organize have been in failing Companies as pilots tried to arrest the erosion of their compensation and QOL. That is also a sign of current economic realities as well as various groups caught on the defensive after drinking the Kool-aid during the good times. Either way, what would you recommend individual pilots do to enhance their compensation and protect their livelihoods other than rely on good faith?

There are plenty of success stories with organized pilot groups. SWA, NetJets, DAL, UAL, Spirit (their contract is better than many give credit), etc. In fact, most every example of a career success story in this business is with an organized group with those stand alone's being the exceptions (JBLU for one) not the rule.

Bottom line, via whatever means, the various pilot groups of the fractional industry should command what they deserve and most currently are not.

DWS1

Seems that the day after my post above, Avantair's pilot group voted to Unionize. I think that is a great step but, as stated above, hopefully it is not too late.

Every Company will have it's good times and bad times. Those who are drinking the Kool-Aid that the good times will last forever and that your hard work will be justly compensated for throughout are kidding themselves. Best time to get an industry leading contract is when the Company needs you most.

GeeWizDriver

If you think the union at Netjets is a "success story," I can't help you. NJASAP puts the "fun" in dysfunctional.

B727DRVR

Dooooooooood... Seriously?!?!

Prior to the union at Netjets, any union, that is... The place was a pay-for-training sweatshop... Not the standard bearer for the highest pay and best working conditions that it is today.

Back in 2001, my old airline had a big furlough and over 40 of our furloughed pilots got on there. We felt very sorry for them at the time: They could only live in 5 places and starting Captain's pay was $35,000 a year. At the time, it was Flight Options that was the standard bearer for good pay and working conditions in the Fractional Industry, although I don't believe that they had a union at the time. Looking at history, they should have organized to preserve what they had when times were good.

Do you think that Warren Buffet and Santuli, out of the goodness of their hearts, raised these pilots pay and working conditions to the level that it is now, or do think that it was the Union (First, IBT and now NJASAP) that brought this about through solidarity, picketing Berkshire Hathaway HQ and Wall Street, and one embarrassing banner tow fly by at the Kentucky Derby that brought these pilots where they are today?

EVERY fractional pilot (really, every commercial pilot anywhere) owes a debt of gratitude to these intrepid pathfinders that stormed the shore and secured a standard of pay and working conditions unmatched by any Fractional and many "majors".

Thanks to the Netjets pilots for proving that you don't get paid what you deserve, you get paid what you negotiate. Just ask any Netjets passenger. No, NJASAP isn't perfect, but it is a lot better than what virtually any other fractional pilots have.. With the close exception of Flight Options.

RI830

Is that what the guys who are on furlough think?

bjtdrvr

Your message says it all.......they are on furlough!!!!!!!! Not FIRED!!!

RI830

Exactly.....the mix of economy, pay scales and business model have led to furloughs. They may not be fired, but they sure aren't receiving compensation or benefits from Netjets.
The union CBA may allow them to come back with time, but will they choose to come back.
I have met many NJA pilots over the years. It is 50/50 on happy or miserable.

B727DRVR

RI, let me begin by saying that I am neither a Netjets pilot nor a Netjets pilot on furlough. I have a great many friends at Netjets, though, including unfortunately, 3 on furlough .

NO union contract can prevent a furlough during the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. That happened at American, Delta, United, Northwest, Alaske, US Airways, etc., and even UPS. What a union contract WILL prevent is what happened at some of the non-unionized Fractionals, such as:

1) Christmas 2008, XOJET terminates (not furloughs) 1/5 of the pilot group on one day, "bloody Saturday", I think they called it. Their first warning was that their e-mail and company phones quit working. For the rest of their careers, these pilots will have to check TERMINATED on their online applications elsewhere. Maybe they'll get to talk to a real person to explain that their company had no contract or furlough policy. But then again, maybe not.

2) 2009 and 2011, Flexjet furloughs, then terminates. Pilots there are unrepresented with no union contract or furlough policy. Pilots must RE-INTERVIEW for their old job and come back at FIRST-YEAR PAY. Some then only to be terminated in the next round. See above at XOJET for the effect on their careers.

3) In 2009, Travel Management pilots receive an e-mail that if this is their go-home day, day 7, to just add 8 days to their tour. Good luck if they are a single Mom or Dad, or a pilot who is caring for a sick spouse, parent, or child. The pilots had no contract to prevent this.

The above are examples of what can happen to a pilot group with no contract to prevent egregious behavior by an employer. Contrast that with the Netjets pilots that were at least given the respect of a furlough. Continue from there and ask any Netjets (or even Southwest, Fedex, etc.) pilot if they would rather go back to the "good old days" before they were represented and before their blowout 2005 contract.

The furloughed pilots I know at Netjets have been furloughed before from other places and one even intends to use his recall rights to Netjets rather than American, where he also has recall rights.

Finally, as far as 50 percent being unhappy, ask any pilot group maybe other than Southwest and you will get a similar result.

NoJoy

True that. ^^^^^