Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-22-2013, 01:45 PM   #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 53
Default To All Fractional Pilots

I know this will set off heated debate, however, I'm sure those protesting the loudest against organizing are the lowest paid, most over worked and carry the highest liability for their employer. Beware the Stockholm Syndrome.

Our industry is maturing and it is up to all those who hope to make it a career (XO Jet, Travel Management, etc) to contribute to raising the bar for the professional and challenging service you provide.

There is never a better time to pursue this.

Visit Teamsters Local 1108

There is plenty of help for those who seek professional compensation and protections in return for professional service.
DWS1 is offline  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RI830's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: BD-700
Posts: 1,423
Default

IMHO.......
Unions are what cause the demise of good companies.
I have been part of a closed shop union/company in the past and it is a complete joke. I am proud to work for a fractional that will never have involve unions.
I suggest getting a job at a company that treats its people right and pays fair wages an then there is no need for a union.
Just like capitalism.....let the system work and things tend to take care of themselves. If a company is bad...no one will work for them and they will be forced to go under or changed. A company who pays fairly and treats employees fairly will do well and succeed.
Just my $.02

Flame away!
RI830 is offline  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Red Forman's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Chief Pilot
Posts: 1,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RI830 View Post
IMHO.......
Unions are what cause the demise of good companies.
I have been part of a closed shop union/company in the past and it is a complete joke. I am proud to work for a fractional that will never have involve unions.
I suggest getting a job at a company that treats its people right and pays fair wages an then there is no need for a union.
Just like capitalism.....let the system work and things tend to take care of themselves. If a company is bad...no one will work for them and they will be forced to go under or changed. A company who pays fairly and treats employees fairly will do well and succeed.
Just my $.02

Flame away!
+1. Filler.
Red Forman is offline  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RI830's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: BD-700
Posts: 1,423
Default

Sorry for the **** poor spelling/grammar in my first post.
Typing feverishly on the IPhone lends itself to many mistakes!

Carry on now!
RI830 is offline  
Old 01-22-2013, 05:42 PM   #5  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: CFI/CFII/MEI
Posts: 45
Default

I agree with your dispostion, unions are something that I am not a big fan of. If only there were more companies out there that treated their employee's well, there would not be all of the bitternees and anger that I experienced at the airlines. I'm hoping to get on with a fractional myself here in a couple months, can't wait for the change....
HolyATP is offline  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #6  
Portuguese Troubleshooter
 
ImEbee's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Burrito Bomber
Posts: 370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RI830 View Post
IMHO.......
Just like capitalism.....let the system work and things tend to take care of themselves. If a company is bad...no one will work for them and they will be forced to go under or changed. A company who pays fairly and treats employees fairly will do well and succeed.
Just my $.02

Flame away!
Said nobody at CitationAir, Net Jets, Flight Options or Avantair. It's easy to look at it in an overly simplified manner but as companies grow or run into difficulties, how they treat their employees change. I am certain you also understand that outside of a very few exceptions it is not in the best interest of a pilot to jump ship as soon as things become difficult. Are you telling me that if EAS started making wholesale changes to your work rules and pay you wouldn't consider organizing? What if you had invested 5-10 years there?

A perfect example right now is Avantair. I would say a vast majority of the pilots there would like to remain non union. However, in light of recent events and actions by the company they have decided that they need to put in place protections to the job they love and have dedicated years to. Please don't suggest that those pilots simply leave the company. In most cases that incurs a significant paycut and QOL sacrifices.

The very existence of unions gives incentive to a company to operate in a manner that the employees do not feel the need to organize. The minute they begin to take that for granted or impinge on that good will they give the employees incentive to organize. Does XO Jet and TMC need to organize? I suppose only if the pilots feel the need but to insinuate, as DWS1 does, that organization is needed to raise the bar so to speak is also overly simplistic.
ImEbee is offline  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:06 AM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
UCLAbruins's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,156
Default

I'm not a big fan of unions either and honestly I still don't know how I feel about'em


The Netjets pilot-job went from a stepping stone job to a career job. From the late 1990s to the early 2000s, there wasn't much diference between Netjets and a commuter airline... However by 2007-2008, Netjets was a better job than some of the major airlines... and the union had a lot to do with that and for that I am gratefull. (we have great QOL, descent pay, no commuting, free benefits, etc...)

My biggest problem with the union is that it is impossible to fire a bad employee and it is almost impossible to reward a good employee. We are all numbers, we're all the same under an organized system

Also sometimes the company finds itself in a bind, and you wanna help, but inorder to help, you have to break the contract... So you don't and the passenger gets screwed..

{Again, I have a good job because of a union, but sometimes I wanna go the extra mile and help the company so it survives, but i can't because I'm bound by a labor contract}
UCLAbruins is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:28 AM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Ludicrous Speed's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RI830 View Post
IMHO.......
Unions are what cause the demise of good companies.
I have been part of a closed shop union/company in the past and it is a complete joke. I am proud to work for a fractional that will never have involve unions.
I suggest getting a job at a company that treats its people right and pays fair wages an then there is no need for a union.
Just like capitalism.....let the system work and things tend to take care of themselves. If a company is bad...no one will work for them and they will be forced to go under or changed. A company who pays fairly and treats employees fairly will do well and succeed.
Just my $.02

Flame away!
To say that the "market" (the jobs market in this case) will somehow work itself out is simplistic academic fantasy. When "things tend to take care of themselves", it could take years.....plenty of time to put an individual or family into financial ruin.

Of course, unions are not a perfect entity....but market capitalism isn't either.

The bottom line is that (especially in large companies), representation of labor and collective bargaining is a necessity.
Ludicrous Speed is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:52 AM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
RI830's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: BD-700
Posts: 1,423
Default

Seeing how union membership is at a 70 year low.....I am to assume that they aren't that stellar.
Union Membership at All Time Low | The Economic Populist
I may live in a fantasy world, but I have the full intention to never be a member of a union ever again. For years I paid in 2% of my wages and received nothing in return but a stinging feeling in my back side. Unions served a great purpose in the 20's and 30's, but they are not serving that same purpose today. Unions are in it for the $$$ and membership numbers....not the pilots.
RI830 is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:22 AM   #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Ludicrous Speed's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 343
Default

If you read your link, the narrative actually lends argument against your assumption that the demise of unions is due to that "they aren't that stellar".

As for them being in it for the money, sure, there is corruption. However, I still believe that there is noble intent. Guess what else? Management is surely in it for the money. Management ultimately wants everyone to be Walmart workers.

To add, there is more to unions than pilot unions (which really aren't unions in regard to solidarity with other trades). That's why organized labor in the pilot ranks are called "associations". So, they're not that good of an example.

Good luck with your goal to never again work in a union shop. However, unions still serve a noble and necessary purpose in today's world.
Ludicrous Speed is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pierce will sell out junior pilots TruthHurts United 64 04-02-2012 10:23 AM
Jay pierce; Undermines Pilot Profession TruthHurts United 57 03-22-2012 10:03 AM
Passenger Planes Sit Idle Because No Pilots Want To Fly Them. Ellen Regional 82 12-17-2011 11:52 AM
American Eagle ALPA & AA APA Strike bgmann Regional 31 11-19-2011 07:33 PM
Arrogaance.com WatchThis! Major 68 07-13-2008 08:12 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:58 AM.