piloto2

It doesn't really matter what an employer or CAE says. What does the FAA say? Can you produce anything from the FAA that says logging SIC time in a single pilot jet is OK? I've posted a couple of FAA legal opinions that say otherwise. Did you even bother to read them?

Ifly4u2c

did you even bother reading a few words of 14 CFR FAR 135.4 (a) 1.

Then I can go by telling you, what a POI says is pretty accurate, because he knows our OP specs, what type of operations my company does, and FAA, well... FAA will tell you a rule that applies in general.
Second, let me ask you... If the captain you fly with likes to hand fly all legs, no autopilot, up to 29000ft and above 41000ft up to 45000ft, does he need a SIC???? Now do you know, or anyone does know, when you have autopilot on or off???

Now a couple of stupid suppositions, lets say you need 2 crewmember, and the SIC falls a sleep all flight, can he log the SIC time??? And what happens if the PIC, does not feel like flying and do ******, can the guy on the right seat log PIC??? Please find me somewhere in the FAA that can answer those questions.

I am not trying to pick up a fight, I am just trying to explain that there is a lot of things in FAA that you can't be 100% sure about. And how to log time is one of them... If you think seating as SIC in a phenom 100/300 you should not log time, let me tell you, CFIing should not be a way to get hours either.

If you ever flew a E55P, you would realize, that airplane with or even without passengers to take care off, in busy airspace such Northeast, or South Florida or even west coast, is too much, even for a well experienced single pilot. All you need is a reroute half way down a STAR... So what i can resume all this post to is, Phenom are legal to be flown single pilot, but I would never put my family in one flown by one crew member. AND the SIC deserves the time logged on it, as far as he is not sleeping...

Ifly4u2c

Another thing, If the SIC is flying the a JET airplane, he is not allowed to log the time, but a CFI is ok to log hundreds of hours, by seating next a student pilot, or an actual pilot building time for his commercial or instrument rating, flying a 152/172 while he/she is listening to music on his iPod... SMH

mojo6911

You're confusing a lot of subjects here.

1. 135.4 refers to eligible on demand. This is different than on demand. It allows for 80% runway Ops Specs and doing approaches to airports without weather reporting. Even if you have the Ops Specs for eligible on demand, most of your flights will not be used under eligible on demand, because the requirements are kind of a pain in the rear and you only operate under those rules if you absolutely have to. You are right, though. Any flight that is operated under eligible on demand rules will require two pilots. These can be logged by a legitimate SIC.

2. In general, IFR passenger operations require two pilots under Part 135. You can get an Ops Spec which allows single pilot operations on single pilot aircraft, using the autopilot in lieu of the required SIC. It is stupid, but the FAA has ruled (in the letter of interpretation that was posted earlier), that if you have the "autopilot in lieu of SIC" Ops Spec, an SIC is not required unless the autopilot is not used. Therefore, an SIC cannot log any time when the autopilot is working and being used. The only exception is what you posted above, you are flying an "eligible on demand" leg.

Net Jets pilots can log it, because they have a restriction on their certificate "Second in Command Required). For the record, the Chief Counsel's opinion is the only one that matters, not the local POI.

1. If the SIC is required, he can log the flight time when he is acting as a crewmember, as such. 2. If the SIC has a PIC rating and is the sole manipulator of the flight controls, he can log the flight time as PIC. This is in 61.55.

Ifly4u2c

"...but the FAA has ruled (in the letter of interpretation that was posted earlier), that if you have the "autopilot in lieu of SIC" Ops Spec, an SIC is not required unless the autopilot is not used..."
...because they have a restriction on their certificate "Second in Command Required)...

This is what all this SIC logging time comes down to... restrictions on certificate, that mandates a SIC or not, not necessarily what the airplane type certificate says.

If you fly it, as your own, "John Doe Private Jet" AKA part 91, then yeah, U cant log the SIC if the PIC is single pilot qualified.

Thank you for clarifying it in a must better way than i could.

backcoursebob06

Wow, another can you log SIC discussion.

Greenwater: get on the 12 and log TT and Turbine and everything else on the 91 legs. Legally on the 12 you could log PIC when you are flying empty 91 legs. it would probably be good experience for you.

We do not use SIC's anymore, there are two left. Everyone is typed and has been to school and we do 95% CA on CA. You will probably not get hired with 500 hours but who knows, they need people now and will need more in the months to come when people's contracts come up and they start leaving. It is a good entry level job, and they have given some low time guys good opportunities. Average flight time is 2000-3500 hours, but they hired a couple 1500 hour guys and made them 300 SIC's last year. Throw your stuff in and see what happens, they need people right now, and the experienced higher time people are not exactly beating the doors down to come here.

hawk21

Yup. My last company required SICs per the OP Specs so it was all legit flight time. Not uncommon to see that.

mojo6911

No, that isn't correct.
This should answer your questions, if you actually take the time to read it. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

"Although section 135.105 allows single-pilot operations with the use of an
approved autopilot system, it does not require that all future flights be conducted
in that manner. See Tarsa Interpretation (Mar. 26, 1992). In other words, the
operator can elect either to operate under IFR with one pilot using the autopilot
system in lieu of an SIC through the approval of operations specification AO 15, or
with two pilots, with the second pilot acting as SIC, without relying on the
autopilot system. See id. "

In other words, if you have A015 and use the autopilot for any portion of the flight, the SIC is not required and may not log the time, if the CA is single pilot rated.

There is no Ops Spec that requires two pilots.

piloto2

I hear this all the time, but I've never seen an Op Spec that required it. Do you have a copy of one? A restriction on an operating certificate, as mentioned by another poster, is a different matter. NetJets has one. Do any others?

As far as POIs go, they are NOT the definitive authority on aviation regulations. Some may think they are and many take their word as gospel. But they are frequently wrong. The legal opinions linked here are what really matter.

I personally know the circumstances surrounding the Nichols letter from 2009. That company was erroneously telling pilots both verbally and in the GOM that pilots could log SIC time, because the company required it. There was no Op Spec or certificate limitation. Lots of 135 operators do the same. It's probably just another carrot dangling ploy to get low time pilots to work for them.

piloto2

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Of course, you could always just lie about not using the autopilot as was suggested earlier. Who would know, right?