Ifly4u2c

So that being said, who can fight someone on it????
CP of XYZ aviation- 750hours SIC on a phenom 300? you are not suppose to log those hours, son...
Pilot - well sir, when I flew as SIC, the PIC was PIC with SIC req.,
... or ... PIC (single pilot ) and A/P off.... or... just because the OP specs required us to have 2 pilots.

Believe me, no CP or HR will ever question that, unless they want to open a can off worms.

GregD

Wow, this thread sure took a turn. It sounds like maybe you got some bad info and logged some bogus SIC time. You aren't the first and surely won't be the last. But I wouldn't count on not being questioned about it, at least by a solid outfit. The only story in your list that might hold up is the one about the PIC requiring a SIC. Anyone in a hiring position would likely see right thru the autopilot and Op Specs line. Be careful!

mojo6911

Lots of hiring managers will look at that, but a lot won't. Make sure you have your story straight and stick to it. The issue that comes into play is that if you falsify an 8710 with bogus hours, you are committing a felony.

It's just like anything in aviation, it is based on the honor system, and stuff like this usually comes into play as a result of something else, like an incident or accident.

Ifly4u2c

this all comes down to each individual situation.

I know my hours as a SIC were 100% accurate.
Now there are many pilots, that probably logged hours that they shouldn't logged, specially those in the flight departments on which only have 2 pilots, both Single pilot, that fly every time together, and swap seats every leg. i bet yall, that there are tons of them out there, just because of the lack of clarity by the company and FAA rules.

Best of luck every one... and fly safe

Dhood84

AO15 states that the certificate holder IS authorized to use......IS being the key word. so my question is why have this if a SIC is required under 135.101? The SIC obviously is required and has gone through training, especially in a 135 operation, since he will be designated SIC ok the trip sheet.

DH

mojo6911

That's the FAA for you.

piloto2

That's an incorrect interpretation of the opspec. All anyone has to do is read the FAA legal opinions to understand that.

But there are lots of people who want to log the time along with employers who dangle that carrot as a way to entice people, who aren't attorneys by the way, that disagree. The FAA's legal interpretation is what the agency will use as the basis for certificate action. And reputable employers will see their BS meter peg when they see someone logging SIC time in a single pilot certificated jet.

Ifly4u2c

WE ARE BEATING A DEADHORSE HERE... Piloto2, you are confused between the meaning of some words.

there is difference between, being able to do something, and be obligated to do something. The rule A015 is an "exception", that ALLOWS the certificate holder, to dispatch the airplane with just one pilot. This A015 "does not obligate" the certificate holder to dispatch the airplane with just one pilot at all times.

What would be a reason for a company to pay an extra 50K to 80K a year for a SIC in salary, plus a inicial type and recurrent every year when they could just do it with one guy? why is netjets doing it with 2 pilots ( which one will be an FO for 10+ years, without logging time "going by your logic"), Executive airshares, Flight options, a bunch of corporate gigs that fly less than 150hours a year???
Finally, do you know all qualifications of all the pilots you fly with? do u check their licenses b4 going to fly? how do you know he/she is Single pilot? are you responsible to know it? one answer for all these questions is NO.

piloto2

My opinion and interpretation of the regulations is not what matters. What does matter is the FAA legal division's interpretation. And they are crystal clear on the matter. If you aren't a required are member per the type certificate on the plane, you don't get to log the time. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand.

As far as NetJets goes, they have an exception on their certificate. They are the ONLY 135 operator that does. It's not "my logic". The FAA has granted the exception. Because of that exception, their SICs get to log the time.

You're darned straight that I know the qualifications of the pilots I fly with. PIC is determined before the flight, every flight. If I am sitting right seat in a single pilot jet, and the other guy is the PIC, I don't log SIC time because it isn't legal (per the FAA).

I'm pretty sure none of this will change your mind. You've determined that you want to log the time and that's it. As I stated earlier, I am personally familiar with the details of the FAA Nichols letter as well as several of the individuals involved. The 135 certificate holder in that case was telling young, inexperienced pilots exactly what you want to believe. They did so because many of their customers wanted two pilots, even though only one was required by the FAA. And they hired these novices on with low pay, but with the promise of logging "jet time".

I have come across many of these erroneous logging entries while reviewing job applicants in both the 121 and 135 worlds. Only one applicant was able to satisfactorily explain the entries. A lot of operators won't care. Many will. And as stated by another here, if you find yourself in front of the FAA for an unrelated situation, they WILL care.

BuddhaPilot73

Talk to a Net Jets pilot. Unless they had a 300 type before getting the job, they all get a PIC type with SIC required restriction. It's not just because they have an exception. Not entirely sure, but I believe the same is true of Flight Options and EAS. Had a Flight Options pilot in my class and I was the only one out 6 getting a single pilot type.

Past time for this ****ing match to go to PMs or an appropriate thread.