Silver02ex

The clock starts at wheel movement, and block/credit is base on per duty period not leg by leg.

Biffsteritis

The truth is that our TA will pay us more than we make now and the bonus check, for most of us, represents a sizable amount of money. But while most of stand to earn, if this TA passes, more money than we ever have in our careers, we need to consider the cost. Can we, in good conscience, vote for a TA that continues to place us at the bottom of the industry in pay, benefits, and work rules? I have considered this TA on its merits and I have searched it to find the “industry leading” provisions that my union espouses, but I cannot find them. I cannot find them even when comparing it against Spirit’s contract. A contract that most acknowledged as being subpar to the industry.

I hope that you will fact check this post and come to the same conclusion as I. I hope you will then not allow the fear of the unknown to dissuade you from voting against this TA on its merits alone.

My apologies for the longest post in APC history. I hope it gives you some factual information. Please share this information with your friends and fellow pilots on the line.

Either way, whatever decision we make in the coming weeks, I hope that we can remain humble in the face of any outcome. I hope we can move forward as a whole and, no matter the pay and work rules, start trying to return this airline to what it once was—a pretty damn decent place to work.

dracir1

The differences are worse then I thought. Our TA isn’t just worse in most areas, it’s much worse.

This is sad.

Trowserchilli

Yawn? Really? What a moron.

There’s absolutely no reason for one item in our TA to be below Spirits. We’re not even setting the bar to be on par with another ULCC.

Mr Biff left out 5hr credit for a 24hr layover.

Plus the reassignment bump. In addition if the reassignment goes into your day off it’s paid at 200% above guarantee.

Spirit also pays their portion of your medical premiums until 65 if your on LTD.

I’ll just add, B6 just laid the foundation for us to negotiate a 4yr deal. For some reason our team thinks being strapped to a 5yr bottom basement deal is a great idea.

This should be at a max a 4yr deal with a cost of living increase at the end for future stalled negotiations.

Biffsteritis

Oversimplified? Shut the thread down.

This was an item by item comparison. If anything was oversimplified, it was just how poor this TA is compared to Spirits.

We are behind Spirit in so many areas in this contract that it is embarrassing!
I didn’t even bother digging through JBs contract after reading our garbage TA, which is exactly what it is—garbage.

Wheelswatch

Biffsteritis, seriously, thank you for the work you put into this. More information, especially parsed in this way, is always helpful. Instead of TA supporters yawning, I challenge one of them to put together a similar montage in an attempt to compare our TA favorably over Spirit's. That would be interesting.

Aero1900

We all know that the TA is lacking. No one is denying that.

The real question is: is voting it down going to result in a favorable outcome?

Is the money lost during negotiations worth it?
How long is it going to take to reach TA2?
What exactly do we want changed in TA2?
How do we prioritize the changes in TA2?
What are you willing to give up in negotiating TA2?
What if the economy goes into a recession?
What if the company decides to play hardball with us and refuses to go back to the table?
What if a merger with Spirit is happening soon and we end up having to engage in a joint collective bargaining agreement? Pushing our TA back significantly?

I'm playing devil's advocate here of course. Honestly, I dont think we need to be going over the details of this deal anymore. We have a simple yes or no choice, and we need to discuss what happens if we vote no. We all know what this TA includes. The question is, is pushing this back a year the best financial decision? Is falling behind another $50 or 60 grand ever going to pay off?

Personally, I don't think so. I calculated that if this deal takes 17 months to reach (same as the last TA voted down took), I'll fall behind by $99,000.......That's an awful lot to make up in TA2

Wheelswatch

You're a persistent one, I'll give you that.

Aero1900

Whatever. I basically stopped posting all together. You have posted way more than me lately.

But, I am persistent in my belief that voting this down is a gamble, and a risky one at that.

Biffsteritis

You are willing to vote on the unknown. We should only be voting this TA on its merits!

I would challenge someone to update and photoshop all the graphs that the union originally presented for comparison. I would love to see a visual representation of what we though WAS important and how we stack up against our peers with this TA. It’ll be disappointing.