Hiring / training
#1111
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 12
Culture and schedule.
I haven’t met too many Frontier pilots in my travels. The few I’ve talked to like the company.
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
#1112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
I haven’t met too many Frontier pilots in my travels. The few I’ve talked to like the company.
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
#1113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 380
I haven’t met too many Frontier pilots in my travels. The few I’ve talked to like the company.
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
Looking to find a MCO based airline and stay there. All the airlines pay enough to make me happy. Care more about culture, pilot community, and schedule. Most of you Frontier pilots happy there? Happy enough to make it a career without hopping?
Thanks for any input..
Fly Safe
#1114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
If you demand something other than what the reg says (which would be your prerogative) why not specify this in the job requirements? I don't understand the resistance. Why create mystery games?
I know that many employers want something other than what the reg says (which, again, they have a right to) and there's a general cultural understanding about this. But not everyone is gonna have that, and someone new (or at least new to civilian flying) asked a very fair question where the job description doesn't specify which version they're asking about. And it grinds my gears that people are getting snippy with him for trying to clear up what the description leaves unclear.
As pilots, one of the qualities that's expected of us is the ability to follow instructions, and rightfully so! In doing our job we have a huge amount of technical data and procedural workflow to follow (some of it not in line with common sense, either). The mentality is black and white, if A then B. Follow the checklist. So we have a reg on what goes in this box, and the application asks what is in this box. Pretty simple. So how can you introduce a secret expectation that the applicant does something else? Why leave it up to the vagaries of general cultural knowledge when you can just specify it in the job requirements and kill the ambiguity?
#1115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Your answer goes against the only instruction out there, which is the reg 61.51. So if this is the only instruction the applicant has to go by, why would you expect of him to do anything else, until surprised by your demands at the interview table?
If you demand something other than what the reg says (which would be your prerogative) why not specify this in the job requirements? I don't understand the resistance. Why create mystery games?
In explaining why they logged something the way they did, citing the regulation that says how to log that thing should be simple and clear cut... especially if that is the only instruction they have to go by. I don't see how a TMAAT question figures in.
I know that many employers want something other than what the reg says (which, again, they have a right to) and there's a general cultural understanding about this. But not everyone is gonna have that, and someone new (or at least new to civilian flying) asked a very fair question where the job description doesn't specify which version they're asking about. And it grinds my gears that people are getting snippy with him for trying to clear up what the description leaves unclear.
As pilots, one of the qualities that's expected of us is the ability to follow instructions, and rightfully so! In doing our job we have a huge amount of technical data and procedural workflow to follow (some of it not in line with common sense, either). The mentality is black and white, if A then B. Follow the checklist. So we have a reg on what goes in this box, and the application asks what is in this box. Pretty simple. So how can you introduce a secret expectation that the applicant does something else? Why leave it up to the vagaries of general cultural knowledge when you can just specify it in the job requirements and kill the ambiguity?
If you demand something other than what the reg says (which would be your prerogative) why not specify this in the job requirements? I don't understand the resistance. Why create mystery games?
In explaining why they logged something the way they did, citing the regulation that says how to log that thing should be simple and clear cut... especially if that is the only instruction they have to go by. I don't see how a TMAAT question figures in.
I know that many employers want something other than what the reg says (which, again, they have a right to) and there's a general cultural understanding about this. But not everyone is gonna have that, and someone new (or at least new to civilian flying) asked a very fair question where the job description doesn't specify which version they're asking about. And it grinds my gears that people are getting snippy with him for trying to clear up what the description leaves unclear.
As pilots, one of the qualities that's expected of us is the ability to follow instructions, and rightfully so! In doing our job we have a huge amount of technical data and procedural workflow to follow (some of it not in line with common sense, either). The mentality is black and white, if A then B. Follow the checklist. So we have a reg on what goes in this box, and the application asks what is in this box. Pretty simple. So how can you introduce a secret expectation that the applicant does something else? Why leave it up to the vagaries of general cultural knowledge when you can just specify it in the job requirements and kill the ambiguity?
The problem with it at the interview, is if you are tight on PIC, or shaky of the validity of it. It will get sniffed out, it will look dishonest, and that will likely be enough to be shown the door. Renting a 152 to hit the number...if it bumps you over the threshold, sure the computer might say to bring you in. But if you're lucky you'd probably get the thanks but come back in a year after getting some more seat time.
#1116
Your answer goes against the only instruction out there, which is the reg 61.51. So if this is the only instruction the applicant has to go by, why would you expect of him to do anything else, until surprised by your demands at the interview table?
If you demand something other than what the reg says (which would be your prerogative) why not specify this in the job requirements? I don't understand the resistance. Why create mystery games?
If you demand something other than what the reg says (which would be your prerogative) why not specify this in the job requirements? I don't understand the resistance. Why create mystery games?
61.51 was created for helicopters. If someone brings it to me and doesn’t have all the appropriate logbook sign offs, with CFI sign-offs as well as what the PIC training program was, then yes, it’s an issue. Without that, you can just log as much PIC as you want, magic pencil if you will.
Sorry if it’s grinding your gears that I’m not giving you the answer you or anyone else want on this topic. I know everyone wants to move on quick, but sometimes grinding it out it a good thing so stop looking for shortcuts. In the end wether you have 1000 TRUE PIC or 500 61.51 PIC, it’s up to the interviewer to judge if the person is going to be a right fit. Why make it harder for yourself and explain a reg during an interview?
#1118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
But it IS actually that big, and I didn't make it so. 61.51 has been around a lot longer than this conversation, and due to employers' wanting PIC defined another way, there are multiple definitions of PIC out there (so "PIC is PIC" is not true) and that needs to be dealt with. And the way to deal with it is not to pretend that the reg definition doesn't exist. And to expect from everybody to magically know to also pretend that way, is an unreasonable expectation. From day one as student pilots, we're taught to follow the regs, and follow the manuals, and follow the SOP's, and follow the opspecs, etc.; and now suddenly this, without warning? To me, the attitude that simply logging how the reg says to log is "dishonest," is bizarre.
#1119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
You've misunderstood the answer I want. I'm not looking for airlines to accept 61.51 time; I've stated several times that it's their right to demand whatever they want. I'm looking for what they want to be specified in the job requirements.
#1120
This conversation has been here since the reg came out. Some apps have it in the application section, some don’t. So sure, they could clean it up. Either way, you have your answer above on how to log if you want to come here.
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