How long for a contract?
06-07-2025 | 04:47 PM
#1681
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 54
If you can get within 5% of legacy payrates, that's great. Take it. It is widely known that Premium revenue and International subsidizes our narrowbody payrates at United, which will be hard to match in these times, to be honest.
I think there is a running myth that other airlines have no "schedule flexibility". At United I have only flown one trip that was on my original schedule for both May and June and 4 of my trips were all picked up from open time or traded from trips I originally bid. I am in the bottom half of my base as well. Sure we have some junior pilots that get redeye flights that fly over a weekend that can't just drop every trip into open time, but we have a very robust trips trading/drop system. We do not have a 100% "can drop" policy, since the airline just can't have every pilot drop all their Christmas trips etc.
I just checked for the rest of June on the Airbus, probably a similar sized fleet to Frontier, and we have 256 trips that are in open time for Captains for the rest of the month. These trips are predominantly open because of trip drops. Only 14 of them have a redeye segment in them. Anyone that has a trip they don't want has a lot of choice of trips to trade into.
Its great that you have a lot of QOL and trading flex, but other airlines do as well. None of us are "stuck" in our monthly trips. This perspective is good to know so that your management doesn't overstate other parts of your contract so that they can short you on take home pay.
I think there is a running myth that other airlines have no "schedule flexibility". At United I have only flown one trip that was on my original schedule for both May and June and 4 of my trips were all picked up from open time or traded from trips I originally bid. I am in the bottom half of my base as well. Sure we have some junior pilots that get redeye flights that fly over a weekend that can't just drop every trip into open time, but we have a very robust trips trading/drop system. We do not have a 100% "can drop" policy, since the airline just can't have every pilot drop all their Christmas trips etc.
I just checked for the rest of June on the Airbus, probably a similar sized fleet to Frontier, and we have 256 trips that are in open time for Captains for the rest of the month. These trips are predominantly open because of trip drops. Only 14 of them have a redeye segment in them. Anyone that has a trip they don't want has a lot of choice of trips to trade into.
Its great that you have a lot of QOL and trading flex, but other airlines do as well. None of us are "stuck" in our monthly trips. This perspective is good to know so that your management doesn't overstate other parts of your contract so that they can short you on take home pay.
I mean you had sub 3.5 credit per vac day which was absolutely terrible in a vac month. Involuntary airport standby for res. Point is you had a lot of bad QOL provisions f9 doesn’t. See how that works. You fixed a lot of that.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 06-07-2025 at 05:18 PM.
06-07-2025 | 06:15 PM
#1682
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,971
Likes: 112
you just nailed the coffin of one of the QOL items.
at F9 depending on the month we can drop until a minimum credit of around 60? For some months and less for others without any repercussions except loss of pay from MMG.
as a reserve pilot we also have the option of moving days around on a grid which shows the availability of days that the company needs a minimum of in each of our bid periods.
in my opinion one of our highest benefit items is anything above 82 hours of credit in a month gets a 25% pay override. But considering we cap our premium at around 150% which never comes available. It is a moot point to brag about.
please continue to keep an eye here for any claims we have to superior QOL items. To discredit any lies we believe with regards to our schedule flexibility and QOL items.
Some would argue we have peak QOL due to the day trips model being so prominent but this is purely relative as you must live in base within 1 hour drive to really benefit from this.
vacation days is our most flexible feature but I’m not sure I’m best to speak of the flexibility in credit/days you can have off or increase value to the end of the year depending on situation.
at F9 depending on the month we can drop until a minimum credit of around 60? For some months and less for others without any repercussions except loss of pay from MMG.
as a reserve pilot we also have the option of moving days around on a grid which shows the availability of days that the company needs a minimum of in each of our bid periods.
in my opinion one of our highest benefit items is anything above 82 hours of credit in a month gets a 25% pay override. But considering we cap our premium at around 150% which never comes available. It is a moot point to brag about.
please continue to keep an eye here for any claims we have to superior QOL items. To discredit any lies we believe with regards to our schedule flexibility and QOL items.
Some would argue we have peak QOL due to the day trips model being so prominent but this is purely relative as you must live in base within 1 hour drive to really benefit from this.
vacation days is our most flexible feature but I’m not sure I’m best to speak of the flexibility in credit/days you can have off or increase value to the end of the year depending on situation.
We don’t cap premium at 150%. That’s where it starts at. While it usually goes quick I have seen premiums nobody picks up that have been bumped in pay until cancellation or a new reserve window takes over. I would like to see a start at 200%.
06-07-2025 | 06:48 PM
#1683
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 102
From: Joystick Operator
Not arguments just slight corrections. We have 6 months of 60, and 6 months of 70 min credit required. Each year the months change a little bit. I would like to see something like Spirit has.
We don’t cap premium at 150%. That’s where it starts at. While it usually goes quick I have seen premiums nobody picks up that have been bumped in pay until cancellation or a new reserve window takes over. I would like to see a start at 200%.
We don’t cap premium at 150%. That’s where it starts at. While it usually goes quick I have seen premiums nobody picks up that have been bumped in pay until cancellation or a new reserve window takes over. I would like to see a start at 200%.
Same here, same old people always picking premium and open time, doing nothing but hurting the group. But they dont care, they argue on the facebook group and will fly 6-10 premium trips a month, sit on their computer all day, fly all over the system, blatantly disregard rest and show up basically sleeping for flights just to make that extra 6hrs pay.
I can't wait to see an in base period where no one outside of the base can pick it up. Seeing a west coast/central guy get an east coast premium and knowing based on their schedule (which you can see on flica, because they dont know how to hide them sometimes) they just got done with a trip, only to know the ONLY possible way is trying to make 2 redeyes to get in and sleep for an hour in the crew room.
/yawn.
06-07-2025 | 09:24 PM
#1684
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 28
This idea that we're the only group of pilots with superior QOL is wayyyy out of wack.
This idea that legacy pilots have crap QOL is also wayyy out of wack.
Trade/Drop/Swap, and 125% after 82 hrs as QOL tools are blown far out of proportion if you ask me.
(Not saying get rid of them)
This idea that legacy pilots have crap QOL is also wayyy out of wack.
Trade/Drop/Swap, and 125% after 82 hrs as QOL tools are blown far out of proportion if you ask me.
(Not saying get rid of them)
United sucks, because they have airport reserve. It sucks to be at United
AA sucks because they "can't drop trips" and will completely cease ops any day because they have [invent a number] of debt
Delta sucks because green slips premium trips do not respect seniority, once you get a trip, you "go to the end of the line" for the next premium trip
You make 300k at Frontier as a Captain. stop the whining. (Big-3 airbus Capt make 450k+)
06-08-2025 | 05:23 AM
#1685
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 494
Likes: 3
+1, man.
Again, not advocating to get rid of a whole lot of anything. I don't think we have much to give, and this isn't a concessionary environment (IMO).
The biggest problem when I hear people talk about QOL is it's always in the eye of the beholder.
Someone commuting short call reserve across the country, with the intention of being at F9 for 2 years, has a very different opinion of QOL.
Versus, some lifer living 5 minutes from the airport.
(Obviously everyone is somewhere in between)
Those legacies have a very different perception of QOL because they have more fleets, spread over more bases, and WB vs NB. Their perceptions are going to be very different.
Pay = Pay. Period.
Again, not advocating to get rid of a whole lot of anything. I don't think we have much to give, and this isn't a concessionary environment (IMO).
The biggest problem when I hear people talk about QOL is it's always in the eye of the beholder.
Someone commuting short call reserve across the country, with the intention of being at F9 for 2 years, has a very different opinion of QOL.
Versus, some lifer living 5 minutes from the airport.
(Obviously everyone is somewhere in between)
Those legacies have a very different perception of QOL because they have more fleets, spread over more bases, and WB vs NB. Their perceptions are going to be very different.
Pay = Pay. Period.
06-08-2025 | 08:09 AM
#1686
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 54
Not arguments just slight corrections. We have 6 months of 60, and 6 months of 70 min credit required. Each year the months change a little bit. I would like to see something like Spirit has.
We don’t cap premium at 150%. That’s where it starts at. While it usually goes quick I have seen premiums nobody picks up that have been bumped in pay until cancellation or a new reserve window takes over. I would like to see a start at 200%.
We don’t cap premium at 150%. That’s where it starts at. While it usually goes quick I have seen premiums nobody picks up that have been bumped in pay until cancellation or a new reserve window takes over. I would like to see a start at 200%.
It would have been interesting had nk/jb merged because blue has trade to zero. Personally I wouldn’t have given anything to go from trade to zero to drop to zero but it is probably better. Or put another way I would have used giving up drop to zero for a gain somewhere else and just went with trade to zero. Both are tied to a res grid so that would have been a wash.
This is what to think about with add/drop/swap open time. It’s not an issue today and we don’t ever want it to become one when to company figures out how to staff properly.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 06-08-2025 at 08:21 AM.
06-08-2025 | 08:17 AM
#1687
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 102
From: Joystick Operator
[QUOTE=fcoolaiddrinker;3918893]While I agree nk drop to zero is better than our current book they are tied to a res grid. What this means is as pilots start dropping down and or Their using res the grid can become a problem to accomplish anything. Staying untied from a res grid (who cares if their using res) and trade to zero would/should be the goal imo. I’m fairly confident I can trade away almost any trip at this place assuming industry rates.
If we got drop to 40-50 and trade to zero, that would be awesome.
If we got drop to 40-50 and trade to zero, that would be awesome.
06-08-2025 | 08:23 AM
#1688
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,749
Likes: 54
[QUOTE=spooldup;3918895]
Yup. Agreed. Untied from res grid. That’s the key.
While I agree nk drop to zero is better than our current book they are tied to a res grid. What this means is as pilots start dropping down and or Their using res the grid can become a problem to accomplish anything. Staying untied from a res grid (who cares if their using res) and trade to zero would/should be the goal imo. I’m fairly confident I can trade away almost any trip at this place assuming industry rates.
If we got drop to 40-50 and trade to zero, that would be awesome.
If we got drop to 40-50 and trade to zero, that would be awesome.
06-08-2025 | 09:00 AM
#1689
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 425
Likes: 78
[QUOTE=spooldup;3918895]
[QUOTE=fcoolaiddrinker;3918896]Not to speak for those NK guys, obviously I don’t work there, but even they would say dropping to absolute zero is not really a thing. They’d do it to take advantage of their X Y system. Otherwise dropping to zero credit hours month after month wasn’t a normal thing.
So even if we never got true DTZ, 40-50 hr would be pretty darn nice.
So even if we never got true DTZ, 40-50 hr would be pretty darn nice.
06-08-2025 | 09:10 PM
#1690
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 66
Likes: 7
If you can get within 5% of legacy payrates, that's great. Take it. It is widely known that Premium revenue and International subsidizes our narrowbody payrates at United, which will be hard to match in these times, to be honest.
I think there is a running myth that other airlines have no "schedule flexibility". At United I have only flown one trip that was on my original schedule for both May and June and 4 of my trips were all picked up from open time or traded from trips I originally bid. I am in the bottom half of my base as well. Sure we have some junior pilots that get redeye flights that fly over a weekend that can't just drop every trip into open time, but we have a very robust trips trading/drop system. We do not have a 100% "can drop" policy, since the airline just can't have every pilot drop all their Christmas trips etc.
I just checked for the rest of June on the Airbus, probably a similar sized fleet to Frontier, and we have 256 trips that are in open time for Captains for the rest of the month. These trips are predominantly open because of trip drops. Only 14 of them have a redeye segment in them. Anyone that has a trip they don't want has a lot of choice of trips to trade into.
Its great that you have a lot of QOL and trading flex, but other airlines do as well. None of us are "stuck" in our monthly trips. This perspective is good to know so that your management doesn't overstate other parts of your contract so that they can short you on take home pay.
I think there is a running myth that other airlines have no "schedule flexibility". At United I have only flown one trip that was on my original schedule for both May and June and 4 of my trips were all picked up from open time or traded from trips I originally bid. I am in the bottom half of my base as well. Sure we have some junior pilots that get redeye flights that fly over a weekend that can't just drop every trip into open time, but we have a very robust trips trading/drop system. We do not have a 100% "can drop" policy, since the airline just can't have every pilot drop all their Christmas trips etc.
I just checked for the rest of June on the Airbus, probably a similar sized fleet to Frontier, and we have 256 trips that are in open time for Captains for the rest of the month. These trips are predominantly open because of trip drops. Only 14 of them have a redeye segment in them. Anyone that has a trip they don't want has a lot of choice of trips to trade into.
Its great that you have a lot of QOL and trading flex, but other airlines do as well. None of us are "stuck" in our monthly trips. This perspective is good to know so that your management doesn't overstate other parts of your contract so that they can short you on take home pay.
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