Upgrade times at frontier
12-12-2023, 04:24 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
He misspoke. Voluntary downgrades instead of forced commutes through displacement.
Unless of course, a voluntary downgrade from CA to FO is labeled as INV.
12-12-2023, 06:14 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by ginntonic
There were involuntary downgrades. Look at the system award on FLICA. Page 3 there are at least four listed.
Unless of course, a voluntary downgrade from CA to FO is labeled as INV.
Unless of course, a voluntary downgrade from CA to FO is labeled as INV.
12-13-2023, 06:00 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
If you look at the criteria for Voluntary vs Involuntary on the initial bid sheet it should clear up the labeling. Not 100% sure on that but pretty sure. I only know because I just flew with one of them since the bid close and they mentioned choosing to downgrade in base vs commuting as captain but obviously wanted neither.
VOL = want to move or take the spot of someone junior who would be displaced involuntarily. For instance, a LAS CA who wanted to get to CLE. Instead of a junior INV, they get picked ahead of the junior pilot.
INV = Self-explanatory. For instance, a LAS CA could put LAS FO in their involutary bid to avoid commuting.
However, I haven't spoken to any affected CAs, so I am not taking any position against their firsthand account or your discussion with them.
12-13-2023, 06:28 AM
#24
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Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by ginntonic
I think the labeling alone supports my position.
VOL = want to move or take the spot of someone junior who would be displaced involuntarily. For instance, a LAS CA who wanted to get to CLE. Instead of a junior INV, they get picked ahead of the junior pilot.
INV = Self-explanatory. For instance, a LAS CA could put LAS FO in their involutary bid to avoid commuting.
However, I haven't spoken to any affected CAs, so I am not taking any position against their firsthand account or your discussion with them.
VOL = want to move or take the spot of someone junior who would be displaced involuntarily. For instance, a LAS CA who wanted to get to CLE. Instead of a junior INV, they get picked ahead of the junior pilot.
INV = Self-explanatory. For instance, a LAS CA could put LAS FO in their involutary bid to avoid commuting.
However, I haven't spoken to any affected CAs, so I am not taking any position against their firsthand account or your discussion with them.
Your Voluntary example could easily be a Vacancy example as well.
Those 4 captains picked a hybrid scenario that’s not really listed well and as such we are splitting hairs. They would be involuntarily forced to commute but they chose to voluntarily downgrade instead. I would call it a Voluntary down grade since they weren’t forced to downgrade, only to move, but chose otherwise. By Voluntarily downgrading in base they created a captain vacancy in CLE that was filled by someone junior to upgrade who would have otherwise not had the chance. Either way, our discussion doesn’t change the suck for them.
12-13-2023, 07:09 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,101
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
Your Voluntary example could easily be a Vacancy example as well.
Those 4 captains picked a hybrid scenario that’s not really listed well and as such we are splitting hairs. They would be involuntarily forced to commute but they chose to voluntarily downgrade instead. I would call it a Voluntary down grade since they weren’t forced to downgrade, only to move, but chose otherwise. By Voluntarily downgrading in base they created a captain vacancy in CLE that was filled by someone junior to upgrade who would have otherwise not had the chance. Either way, our discussion doesn’t change the suck for them.
Those 4 captains picked a hybrid scenario that’s not really listed well and as such we are splitting hairs. They would be involuntarily forced to commute but they chose to voluntarily downgrade instead. I would call it a Voluntary down grade since they weren’t forced to downgrade, only to move, but chose otherwise. By Voluntarily downgrading in base they created a captain vacancy in CLE that was filled by someone junior to upgrade who would have otherwise not had the chance. Either way, our discussion doesn’t change the suck for them.
You want it to be involuntary so there’s no seat lock. The only reason to do it voluntarily is if you were going to anyway and want the paid move/contractual $. If you were awarded a vacancy you don’t get that. That’s off the top of my head so feel free to correct.
12-13-2023, 10:33 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker
You want it to be involuntary so there’s no seat lock. The only reason to do it voluntarily is if you were going to anyway and want the paid move/contractual $. If you were awarded a vacancy you don’t get that. That’s off the top of my head so feel free to correct.
12-13-2023, 06:25 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,101
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
Thanks for your input. I had been curious about why anybody would want the Voluntary option. That clears it up a bit.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 12-13-2023 at 06:40 PM.
12-13-2023, 08:19 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,356
Originally Posted by spooldup
Yeah... lowest paid, but I haven't worked a holiday except 1 when I started thanks to our drop/trade/swap/pickup rules. I will 100% always take QOL language over pay, as pay is easy to increase or decrease, gaining QOL is usually harder.
Your thinking is exactly why we can't grow. NO ONE is leaving any other airline (not even Allegiant or Breeze) to come here for drop/swap/trade rules that are mostly just drop (swapping is minimal due to lack of open time and the trade board is a joke).
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