capthrs

I have zero problem with who F9 selects to interview. Just let me know the real criteria for selection so that I can see if I actually fit it. Gasnhaul is right, its weird and I wouldn't have wanted my buddy to burn his only "Silver Bullet" if I didn't stand a better chance than others without one to get an interview. Sorry folks! just venting a little due to confusion and frustration.

Bulldog319

All I can say to that is to reference the Eischen quote from Oskeewowow. I actually quoted the entire section here for the benefit of applicants that would not normally be able to easily access the information.

So no, your point is not really that clear when considering what I have heard about the staffing provisions in the Chautauqua CBA. I believe that the Chautauqua CBA was negotiated that way in order to protect the company from unnecessary training costs in return for the holdings wide seniority list and is being applied in this manner now. Nothing nefarious is going on here as implied by Oskeewowow.



The RAH pilots hired were given a preferential hire conditional upon them resigning from their former certificate. It was not a hire imposed by the Eischen award.

I do agree that it is still a mess and will be fought over in the courts for quite some time to come considering what is at stake for the RAH pilots that believe they have a right to those seats.

The possible transaction in September will not end that fight, however my personal belief is that they will not be successful unless the single carrier status somehow manages to extend past the duration of the fence. I do not see that as a likelihood.

I do wish I had a copy of the Chautauqua CBA to verify what I have heard about the staffing provisions. Anyone wanting to send that file please feel free. I am not a member in good standing and so do not have access to the IBT website to get a copy for myself.

RockyMntAV8R

Bulldog, good information. I seem to recall that RAH's council was involved and determined that the Eischen award did apply to the hiring of the RAH non furloughed pilots, but then again it could have been one of the many nightmares I had about the integration. Do you remember hearing any thing like this? Thanks for the discussion, the information and your point of view.

Bulldog319

I don't remember that being the case, and cannot see how the hiring of them would have been required by the award while at the same time requiring them to resign or interview for the position. I don't remember for sure but I think even the furloughs that came over still interviewed, they were able to maintain seniority basically because there was not a company for them to resign from.

There were some later determinations by Eischen saying the fence did not apply to priority for line bidding, and that's really all I can remember from that time frame.

I think the hiring of both groups was more of a "We are One" type gesture more than anything else, and we probably could have hired off the street at that time. Essentially that is what we did in regard to the Chautauqua pilots that came over.

RockyMntAV8R

Bulldog, I hope so. Good stuff and lets hope for the best!

cnhtwh

For all the current F9 pilots who have been posting on this thread, would you advise a current regional F/O who will upgrade to Captain in the next 6 months to leave and come to F9? I have an interview next week and I am very torn as I currently live where I am based and am able to watch my infant son while my wife is at work. We would actually like to move to Chicago if I could be based there but it sounds like all new hires will be based in Wilmington or Trenton in the near future. I'm not at all trying to compare working at my crappy little regional to working at F9, I'm just looking for some opinions of someone already working there on how you think things might unfold over the next couple years with the sale of the company and potential new bases. Thanks for any insights.

Noseeums

check pm...

zoooropa

The Award doesn't apply to hiring or filling of vacancies. It hasn't applied to one single vacancy bid at RAH or F9 to date, why should it start now?

Correct, Eischen specifically referred to "single" systems and the NMB specifically referred to the separation when RAH attempted to have the representation election delayed.

It took six months at the NMB the last time. I would expect the same time frame when we approach the NMB this time.

This is not factually correct. F9 has never filled a vacancy pursuant to the Eischen Award. F9 hired several pilots (some of which resigned their seniority and some that did not resign their seniority) prior to The Award being issued. We have not hired anyone since The Award. F9 did have a Voluntary Staffing Adjustment (MKE closed, CHI opened) and those vacancies were NOT filled according to The Award, they were filled according to the F9 CBA (DOH seniority).

The Eischen Award doesn't apply to hiring.

You have some items correct and others incorrect. F9 did not hire "furloughs". The term "furlough" is defined by the F9 CBA. The CHQ CBA doesn't apply to this hiring event, just like the F9 CBA didn't apply to the RAH hiring of 190 and q400 pilots. You can't have it both ways (see oskee's post above about integrity). Where was all of this outrage when RAH was filling vacancies at RAH? Maybe I wanted to be a 190 CA (those are free to everyone according to Eischen). I can't bid 190 for the exact same reason you can't bid at F9. Where was the lawsuit when F9 filled the CHI domicile according to DOH? Any litigation regarding this hiring will be dead in the water based on past precedent.

Eischen made several statements related to "hiring"...

"Pilots hired after October 1, 2009 are to be placed at the end of the
IMSL, by date of hire."

and

"Articulation
of the reciprocal fence protections in terms of "priorities" means that, to the extent fenced
positions remain open after the exercise of a protected groups priority rights, other pilots on the
IMSL can bid for such open positions, in accordance with their integrated seniority and the terms
and conditions of applicable CBA provisions; rather than the Carrier filling those positions by
hiring new pilots off the street. Those reciprocal, limited duration and aircraft-type defined
priority fences do not apply to the E-190 aircraft"

and

"The Award does not include proposed "conditions and restrictions" which would require
application of one carrier’s collective bargaining agreement to work performed at a carrier
covered by a different collective bargaining agreement; conditions which are contrary to existing
collective bargaining agreement provisions (e.g. proposed changes to vacancy bidding rights,
displacement provisions, domiciles, and/or training freezes/seat locks); and, conditions that
involve matters subject to negotiation (e.g. the transfer of longevity credits between collective
bargaining agreements, or tolling of recall provisions)."

and

"In the event that the NMB finds a single transportation system and then certifies a single
bargaining representative for the system-wide craft or class of pilots, applicable CBAs will
remain applicable, in accordance with their terms, until consolidated or otherwise modified by
valid mutual agreement between the affected single carrier and a certified single pilot craft or
class bargaining representative, if any."

and

"After the NMB makes its
determinations, the designated single representative and the Company must negotiate an
implementing agreement and/or revise or consolidate the applicable CBAs. Thus, these Parties
not only have the cart before the horse but also have yet to attach the wheels and seat the driver."

(we can all thank the IBT for prematurely advancing this SLI for the benefit of the majority and at the expense of the minority, but that is a debate for another thread)

In short, the CHQ CBA and F9 CBA still apply. No RAH pilot can "bid" for airbus vacancies and no F9 pilot can bid for EMB 135-175 vacancies.

tjet50

Quick question for all the current F9 pilots on here. I have an interview next week as well, current captain at a regional and west coast based. How long do you think it would take for a new hire to be awarded DEN as a base, and where do you see the new hires being based initially (I have heard a few places). I am also curious about how commutable schedules are, and how hard or easy it may be to do so from the west coast. I appreciate any and all input.

zoooropa

We are short Denver FOs so new hires will briefly hold Denver. Rumor is a spring closure of CHI along with an opening of a Northeast base. Few Denver folks will bid Northeast and the new base will be larger than CHI so all newhires should expect a displacement to the Northeast base. None of this is written stone but it is very likely.