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06-14-2016, 06:06 AM

#4781

Broflyer

On Reserve

Joined APC: Apr 2015

Position: Airbus Driver

Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trowserchilli

Trying to compare numbers between carriers 10 years out is fruitless.
10 years is a long time.
12 years ago Frontier pilots were making more than JetBlue pilots. Based on some of the logic here those B6 pilots should have left in 2004 because the 10yr projection didn't look well.

2004
F9 12yr Captain $157
B6 12yr Captain $139

Agreed. Making a long term decision (20-30 years) off of short term (3-5 year) facts it's like throwing darts in the dark while wearing mittens- any bullseye is just going to be luck. I remember the days (just a few years ago) when starting UAL pay was in the low $30's and F9 Captains made more per hour in the narrow body. Contracts (and pay tables) come and go. At least F9 can only (conceivably) go up.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying F9's current pay rates- they're wholly inadequate and will make retention and recruitment increasingly difficult.)

06-14-2016, 07:06 AM

#4782

F9 Driver

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2010

Posts: 387

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arty13

So much for that.

We're dealing with the Herndon Big Leagues now. Their lawyers went to the same schools as the company shills.

They never specified Monday of what week

In my interactions with ALPA so far they're batting .500

PLEASE don't make me regret my vote for ALPA

06-14-2016, 08:45 AM

#4783

DENpilot

Banned

Joined APC: Nov 2008

Position: doggy style

Posts: 1,006

Just a heads up to anyone thinking of coming here for quick upgrade... they've canceled all plans for upgrade classes. Crew planning says there is a small possibility of a December class, but that will be reviewed in the fall.

06-14-2016, 09:10 AM

#4784

ULLI

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2014

Posts: 555

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENpilot

But they just announced classes running again starting sept 20+ in each. How can they not upgrade? We also have planned fleet growth. Unless neos are behind.

Realistically we dont have true two year upgrades. People are choosing to bypass. If it was not for that it would take 4-5 years.

06-14-2016, 09:45 AM

#4785

sulkair

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2009

Posts: 1,459

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULLI

Just thinking out loud here: This might make sense. Looking at July Bid Lists: We are +5 CA's in CHI, Equal in MCO and roughly + 30 CA's in Denver. That's 35 more CA's than FOs.

With the lion's share of attrition coming from the FO side, newhire classes in the Fall will even up the seats. Then possibly upgrades resume next year - No?

But it is hard to believe the "projections" of 270, here and 230 there when they aren't running classes 24/7

06-14-2016, 11:19 AM

#4786

kb8018

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Nov 2013

Posts: 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENpilot

I'm confused by this too. The first neo already rolled off the line in Toulouse. They are putting seats in now and it enters service in September. Doesn't seem like the neo program is behind. Why would upgrades get canceled?

06-14-2016, 11:53 AM

#4787

Cross Check

Line Holder

Joined APC: Aug 2013

Position: A320 FO

Posts: 93

We are returning a lot of A319s aren't we. We haven't really added a significant amount of aircraft in that last 9 years. Back then we had around 55 aircraft.

06-14-2016, 12:19 PM

#4788

AncientAliens

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2015

Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Check

We are returning a lot of A319s aren't we. We haven't really added a significant amount of aircraft in that last 9 years. Back then we had around 55 aircraft.

My guess is upgrades will run about 30-36 months for those hired in 2014. If the company opens a west coast base (LAS, PHX) that will slow things down as senior FOs who have bypassed in DEN so they don't have to commute to the east coast will start upgrading. Take the growth projections from the company with a grain of salt. It's in their interest to present a rosy picture of two year upgrades and 20% growth year over year to potential new hires who are staring a $24,000 training contract in the face.

06-14-2016, 12:52 PM

#4789

bozobigtop

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2009

Position: Left seat of a Jet

Posts: 514

Quote:

Originally Posted by AncientAliens

They're willing to open a west coast base on top of Denver? That strategy works for United with all of its vast resources, not sure what's behind Frontier's reason.

06-14-2016, 01:22 PM

#4790

AncientAliens

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2015

Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozobigtop

They're willing to open a west coast base on top of Denver? That strategy works for United with all of its vast resources, not sure what's behind Frontier's reason.

MGMT wants to transition from a traditional hub and spoke model to more point to point flying. Right now DEN is about 3 times the size of either ORD or MCO. The point to point strategy works better with smaller bases scattered around the country a la Spirit. The CEO has said the goal is to eventually have two bases in each time zone; one in the north and one in the south. LAS makes sense for the west coast because of the large volume of flying we do out of there especially with the high amount of redeyes.