One of the benefits of the concessions that we negotiated is that the work rules were largely (completely?) untouched, and everything else had snapbacks. That leaves us not much besides pay rates to claw back. The company is dragging their feet on the LOA 67 language because that is the biggest pain point for us. With a 20%-30% pay increase, we'd have much less inclination to vote yes on a TA unless it had a substantial improvement from that level.

FWIW, my concessionary pay rate was more than the USAir A330 captains were getting, for quite a while.

 

[QUOTE=FAULTPUSH;2156618]One of the benefits of the concessions that we negotiated is that the work rules were largely (completely?) untouched, and everything else had snapbacks. That leaves us not much besides pay rates to claw back.

The work rules at frontier are not that great. When I was hired I kept hearing about how great the rules are. They are comparable to the average regional airline and certainly worse than any major and all of our LLC peers. As Allegiant and places like Sun Country come up in the world, frontier employees might start realizing that our rules pretty much suck. Half pay for deadheads, no hotels if you cancel in domicile, terrible hotel language, our showtimes are pathetic, no international or redeye pay, our vacation drop only works if your dropped trip doesn't pass back through domicile. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

This is typical of the frontier attitude and why we are industry bottom. Few that work here realize how much we suck. I'd love to be proved wrong. Please tell me where our work rules are something to brag about.

 

I agree the work rules aren't that good.

The 70 hour credit minimum is pretty annoying. Also if you miss a trip due to commuting issues you have to somehow make up time to get back to 70.

You also can not drop reserve days. I guess that's good for line holders because you have a better chance of staffing be good enough to drop or trade a trip, but it really makes reserve QOL suck. This needs to be changed.

As a line holder the ability to drop and trade trips is good so I can almost always get the days off I need, but besides that the work rules need improvement.

 

Don't forget no minimum day guarantee. I was really surprised how many things were a step backwards in terms of work rules from the regional I came from. It was also surprising how many guys think the work rules here are good.

If I could do it again. I would do it differently but I'm still optimistic that someday frontier will be a good place to work. In the mean time I'll be waiting for the phone to ring .

 

There was a time when I thought our work rules were great. That was when we were a spoke and hub airline. It was easier to swap, drop, and split trips when every other leg came through Denver. Those days are over, so it's not nearly as good as it once seemed.

Personally, I'm working 3 days a month more than I was five years ago. So in my opinion, the work rules aren't that great.

 

Our contract states "When ever possible" the company will let us do as we please.

I don't want to jump on the pilots that worked on our current contract, but I agree its outdated and very weak. When we can't win a grievence over the definition of what "is" is, then its time to scrap it. I'm referring to displaced for training.

I know there are those who will say it will take FOREVER to get a new contract, but I have nightmares about flying the next 20 years under the current one. I'm pretty sure ALPA can help write a new one.

 

It doesn't really matter what our work rules are... If the deck is always stacked in managements favor and our only recourse is to grieve it and fly it, why would they have any inclination to change their practices... I'm honestly shocked they honor our vacation and monthly and daily open time

 

The 2006 contract we work under today has the term "whenever possible" in two (2) places:
1) Leaves of Absence - "A Pilot shall provide notice to the Chief Pilot's office of his projected start (whenever possible) and return date from a Leave of Absence as far in advance as possible."
2) Military Leaves of Absence - "Whenever possible, such notice shall be in writing to the Chief Pilot's office and shall include a copy of the relevant military orders directing the military duty."

Not exactly the smoking gun you're making the term out to be. FAPA's first contract, signed in 2001, was riddled with "whenever possible", and was impossible to enforce.

 

[QUOTE=ClearCreek;2156761]Why are you here then? Please explain to me? Nobody is twisting your arm to stay? I necessarily don't disagree with your points but if this place suck so bad then you can go somewhere else.

 

For everybody that is picking apart our contract, please send your thoughts and ideas to the Negotiating Committee. It is awesome that everybody is pointing out the flaws on APC, but what will it get you? Point them out to the Negotiating Committee where it matters!