No way to really tell. It is my opinion that it could have been more painful in the short term but it would be highly unlikely that we would be under the same court ordered concessions going into 2017 (almost 7 years since exiting BK) and who knows how much longer this will extend. We would have had a much earlier date to restore and negotiate a new CBA. I know hindsight is 20/20 and hate to say it but the fact that we are leaps behind everyone, (which includes some pilot groups that went the way of the 1113 before us) is fact. Just because it was our turn get kicked does not mean we had to line up for it with a smile. The company had 2 choices to shed pilot cost, negotiate the savings or, if unsatisfied with the results of the negotiation go to the courts for CBA savings through an 1113 hearing. They took what they considered their best option. If F9 thought they could have secured a better deal in an 1113 hearing, they would have gone that route. Here's your pat on back!

 

My thoughts exactly RockyMntAV8R.

 

Here's your pat on the back for being a hypocrite:

 

Any thoughts on JetBlue interested in frontier?

 

Always fun to get a new rumor.

JetBlue buying frontier probably makes less sense then them buying Virgin. Virgin would have given them more west coast capacity than frontier offers. Frontier however is much more profitable and has a really strong order book. 10 more A321s, and 80 early NEOs on order.

If JetBlue was willing to pay 2+ Billion for Virgin they just might be willing to buy frontier too. For Indigo, it would be one heck of a good investment. I think they paid less then 40 million in cash to buy frontier, and assumed about 100 million in debt. To turn around a sell for 2+ billion seems like a pretty good return on investment to me!

 

Driver,
That post was from 3 years ago and was in reply to a statement that all should leave the LCC companies and go to a legacy. If you don't see a difference (in everything but our pay and benefits) here at F9 in the last 3 years you must remove your blinders, lots have changed. My entire point was to demonstrate that LCC companies in general would be no more of a gamble than a legacy which was the statement I was replying to. Notice how the thread referenced LCC's not ULCC's. We had not even begun our current venture as a ULCC. Ask a WN pilot if the LCC model of the past could not turn into a lucrative career. Not being a hypocrite just calling it like it is. Of course you know that that because instead of defending your position you would rather pull past post out of threads that have nothing to do with LOA 67 and current CBA discussions. I have never said my career at F9 has not had any positives, quite the opposite. I think this solidifies my record of calling it how I see it, positive or negative. However the same cannot be said for you. You will remain a cheerleader for our CBA shortcomings, the very ones you voted for or maybe even sold to this great group of pilots. I don't fault you for voting your conscience but to try to squash any dissenting view is a disservice to this pilot group and yourself. For the record I did not vote for 67 nor any of the concessions associated with the BK. But thanks for keeping the company going and for securing a growing network in DEN -atta-boy!

 

Those votes for LOA 67 is what kept you employed the last 6 years when no one was hiring. So you're welcome.
The whole point of LOA 67 was to keep the lights on at Frontier 1) so we could fight another day. Which is now. And 2) to let guys look for other jobs WHILE CONTINUING TO BE EMPLOYED. If you were against every single concession why the heck haven't you left?

 

So if this is our time to fight, when does it begin? The company is being absolutly ridiculous by mentioning that we need to give stuff so they can balance out paying us what they owe us per LOA 67, suggesting that its cause by challenging economic conditions. The union is pretty silent lately (shocker I know). Still waiting for a game plan........ something......anything. The company will drag their feet for years..... then mediation.... then we must deny Arbitration and strike. There is no other path to getting industry average compensation.

 

Southern,
Have you bothered to call anyone on the MEC or negotiating committee? Any and all communications the union puts out the company almost immediately sees. They, union officials, are all willing to talk to you but YOU need to put in some effort to reach out to them.
The best impetuous for the company to step up negotiations is if 1) guys leave for other companies 2) people stop showing up for classes and interviews. 3) line pilots stop helping out the company
Negations is a long, drawn out process that is inherently designed by the law to favor the company. That's how it is. It sucks but we can't strike tomorrow or all call out sick. There would be severe consequences if we did. Ask the APA.
Allegiant has raised the bar on pay and the company knows it. They want to hire 270 pilots next year and the competition to get those numbers just got A LOT TOUGHER. Let alone trying to hold onto their current pilots.

 

NoCo,
I never said I voted against every concession. So your answer is if someone doesn't agree with you they should quit or go somewhere else? Let me get this straight, a pilot had to have supported 67 to have a voice..what I Joke! It's funny because that same bulldog mentality and arrogance is one (of many) reasons we negotiated ourselves into our present position. As I previously posted I don't believe 67 saved the company. If F9 had not been satisfied with the concessions of 67 they would have taken other avenues, plain and simple. Anyway I am thankful to still have the job and look forward to a better CBA tomorrow...or next week...or next year...or sometime! Until then I will live under 67 just like you and the rest of the pilot group. Once again just my opinion.