Gojet
05-27-2008 | 10:48 AM
#243
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Two different groups right? TSA Pilots don't fly for AA.
THE SCOPE CLAUSE in the contract from AA prohibits TSA from flying 70 seat aircraft. The CRJ's are flown by AE, which was agreed upon by AA and AE's pilots.
Dude, seriously, ****...I always see you trolling in these threads
05-27-2008 | 11:09 AM
#244
On Reserve
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
This is why having a conversation on these boards is a waste of time. You know very well that TSA's operating certificate cannot have anything larger than fifty seat jets. You want to twist it around and say that nowhere does it say that TSA pilots cannot operate seventy seat jets, well than I agree with you.
I have to agree with a previous post....I am no longer in the regional world and therefore have no dog in the fight and probably shouldn't post on here anyway.
Good luck in your battle against Gojet...I hope it is successful.
I have to agree with a previous post....I am no longer in the regional world and therefore have no dog in the fight and probably shouldn't post on here anyway.
Good luck in your battle against Gojet...I hope it is successful.
05-27-2008 | 10:59 PM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Satan's Camaro
This is why having a conversation on these boards is a waste of time. You know very well that TSA's operating certificate cannot have anything larger than fifty seat jets. You want to twist it around and say that nowhere does it say that TSA pilots cannot operate seventy seat jets, well than I agree with you.
I have to agree with a previous post....I am no longer in the regional world and therefore have no dog in the fight and probably shouldn't post on here anyway.
Good luck in your battle against Gojet...I hope it is successful.
I have to agree with a previous post....I am no longer in the regional world and therefore have no dog in the fight and probably shouldn't post on here anyway.
Good luck in your battle against Gojet...I hope it is successful.
APA CBA Section 1.B.3 The term "Commuter Air Carrier" refers to any Air Carrier utilizing only (a) aircraft that are certificated in the United States and Europe with a maximum passenger capacity of 50 passenger seats or fewer and (b) aircraft that are not certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than 64,500 pounds. If an aircraft type operated by an Air Carrier otherwise meeting the conditions in the preceding sentence is recertified with a maximum passenger capacity of greater than 50 passenger seats, the Air Carrier operating said aircraft shall remain a Commuter Air Carrier so long as it operates said aircraft with no more than 50 passenger seats.
Section 1.D.2:
American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc.
American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc. may operate, in the aggregate, no more than 43 ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity of between 51 and 70 seats, without losing their status as Commuter Air Carriers.
American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc.
American Eagle, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc. may operate, in the aggregate, no more than 43 ATR 72 aircraft or other turbo prop aircraft certificated in the United States and Europe for a maximum passenger capacity of between 51 and 70 seats, without losing their status as Commuter Air Carriers.
December 5, 2003
This Agreement is made and entered into in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by and between American Airlines, Inc., hereinafter known as the “Company” and the Air Line Pilots in the service of the Company as represented by the Allied Pilots Association, hereinafter known as the APA.
Whereas the APA and the Company have agreed that in the future, Commuter Air Carriers operating under Section 1.D. of the Agreement shall utilize only aircraft that are not certificated in the United States or Europe with a maximum passenger capacity of more than 50 seats and that are not certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than 64,500 pounds;
Whereas American Eagle Airlines currently has twenty five CRJ-700 aircraft in service or on firm order, and also has options on an additional twenty five CRJ-700 aircraft:
Now, therefore, the parties hereby agree to the following:
For the American Airlines, Inc. For the APA
/signed/ /signed/
Mark L. Burdette Captain John E. Darrah
Director, Employee Relations President, Allied Pilots Association
Letter Agreement on CRJ-700 Aircraft
This Agreement is made and entered into in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by and between American Airlines, Inc., hereinafter known as the “Company” and the Air Line Pilots in the service of the Company as represented by the Allied Pilots Association, hereinafter known as the APA.
Whereas the APA and the Company have agreed that in the future, Commuter Air Carriers operating under Section 1.D. of the Agreement shall utilize only aircraft that are not certificated in the United States or Europe with a maximum passenger capacity of more than 50 seats and that are not certificated in any country with a maximum gross takeoff weight of more than 64,500 pounds;
Whereas American Eagle Airlines currently has twenty five CRJ-700 aircraft in service or on firm order, and also has options on an additional twenty five CRJ-700 aircraft:
Now, therefore, the parties hereby agree to the following:
- The Company and APA shall have one year from May 2003 to meet and negotiate in good faith the transfer of the CRJ-700 aircraft currently in service, on order, or on option at American Eagle to the Company’s operating certificate in a manner that shall be cost-neutral as to labor costs under collective bargaining agreements.
- The APA hereby grants to the Company an exception from the 50 seat and 64,500 pound limitations on aircraft at American Eagle for the CRJ-700 aircraft during the time period of negotiations pursuant to paragraph 1, above, and for one year after reaching agreement with the APA under paragraph 1, above, in order to effect the transfer to the Company’s operating certificate of all CRJ-700 aircraft operated by the Company or an Affiliate.
- If the parties do not reach agreement under paragraph 1 of this agreement, the APA grants to the Company an exception from the 50 seat and 64,500 pound limitations on aircraft at American Eagle specifically for the CRJ-700s currently in use, on order or on option as of the signing of this letter. This exception is for a maximum of fifty (50) CRJ700 aircraft with the understanding that the cancellation, transfer or expiration of any of the current (as of DOS) orders or options reduces this maximum number by a like amount.
For the American Airlines, Inc. For the APA
/signed/ /signed/
Mark L. Burdette Captain John E. Darrah
Director, Employee Relations President, Allied Pilots Association
TSA can certainly purchase 70 seaters; however, they must be operated under a separate certificate. Have you not noticed that CHQ flies for American Connection, but the two RAH certificates that DON'T fly for American Connection are the only ones that have 70 seaters? TSA (TSH) created GoJet to circumvent AMR APA scope clause and fly 70 seaters for UAX. The contract that would have caused TSA pilots to be on the same seniority list as GoJet pilots was rejected due to MANY many unacceptable loopholes, all of which have been discussed at one time or another on these forums.
Facts are fun!
EDIT:
Also, I don't know if you understand what OpSpecs actually are, but last time I saw them, there was nothing prohibiting 70 seaters, and in fact, (also the last time I saw) there were still ATR72 pay scales in the TSA contract. Perhaps a current Waterskier could confirm/correct this. Also, surely you must realize that just because an operating certificate doesn't include a particular type of aircraft, it doesn't mean that you can't add them on, which is actually simply a part of purchasing ANY new aircraft type.
Last edited by boilerpilot; 05-27-2008 at 11:12 PM.
05-28-2008 | 06:20 AM
#248
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 616
Likes: 4
From: A220 CA
i agree, great post. just a small quibble with the above statement. our contract already dealt with what tsa holdings had to do if they wanted to create a gojet type company. they were supposed to use one seniority list, and pay agreed upon pay rates. all that was already spelled out in the tsa contract. tsa holdings management blatantly violated that contract, and got away with it in arbitration. then they came back and offered us the "new deal" that we rejected based on what you said above. this is why i laugh when people say things about "legally binding contracts".
05-28-2008 | 08:30 AM
#250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Satan's Camaro
Ask many mainline pilots and they will tell you they have never heard of GoJet nor care about them. Inform them of what truly happened.........how they stabbed TSA pilots in the back in order to fly and these same mainline folks who minutes before had little expression towards GoJet are now seeing red. There will always be some fools who try and defend or rationalize what GoJet did but bottom line is they are scum
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