ryane946

As a civilian, I've flown in an F-16 with a beard. Mask seals just fine.

I would absolutely support changing this. If we have to bargain for it, then so be it. That's what we signed up for when being represented by a union.

robthree

I'm sorry. But I can not consider any document written on a typewriter as the definitive word on any subject in the 21st century.

Appearance matters.



There seem to be two arguments against allowing individuals to make an individual choice in their own grooming while meeting public standards:

1) Safety of flight. The data presented seems to be mixed at best. Thirty year-old ACs notwithstanding, modern masks seem to be so much more robust than the equipment in use in the previous century that the rest of the world finds an acceptable level of safety can be maintained with bearded flight crews.

2) Corporate image. Public image is a legitimate concern of our employers. And many in management, as well as in the cockpit, tend to think that the military style of the 1950's and 60's is still the ideal that one should emulate. Fifty plus years of style changes would tend to undermine that argument. Man buns may not be your thing, but nobody is saying you have to have one. There is room for beards in a 'professional' environment. Just as there is room for everything from shaved heads to Bob Ross perms.



You don't like it? Fair enough. Don't do it.
You don't like someone else doing it? .... ....

cadetdrivr

That's fine. The FAA does not move quickly, nor, I suspect, bothers doing much additional testing on something they figure has been resolved.

All we need is some more current definitive science. I'm open to it so let's have it.

FWIW, I haven't noticed it on the NG, but the A320s I flew at "brand x" a while back actually had a warning label on the cockpit O2 masks "DOES NOT SEAL BEARDS." The airline permitted beards. What could possibly go wrong?

Given past documented research I'm gonna stick with my assumption that the lawyers won't be in a hurry to change the policy.

Wags808

I just caught up from yesterday, and I'm pleased to see all the input! The post above sums things up very well. It's refreshing to know that for the most part most of us think pilots can be smart/mature enough to professionally wear a beard if they so choose. As much as anything it is a matter of not having the company dictate our personal appearance outside of work (since beards tend to take a couple weeks to develop.)

Of course, there will never be 100% consensus and there will be a few who hold on to the old militant style they consider to be the only "professional" look, but their arguments against others having the option to grow manicured beards ring hollow. ("Bigger fish to fry. Go fly for someone else. If that's what's holding people back they shouldn't fly. Beard is a slippery slope to neck tattoos.")

I really think changing this asinine rule could be easier than many of us thing.

So what do we do?

1) Start gathering a list of pilots who support the common sense rule change, regardless of whether they personally plan on growing a beard.

2) Talk to a local council officer (obviously one who won't simply scoff at it like some in this thread) about the discussion, support, and how we could best present it to the company.

Part of the discussion may include giving the company more of a "21st Century" image (which could help marketing,) and becoming more attractive to future pilots of the millennial generation.

3) Working with the negotiating committee to produce a letter of agreement (LOA) and memoranda of understanding (MOU.)


For number 1 I have created an online petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...ed-pilots.html

Please email/share it with as many other United pilots as possible. Emphasize that it is just an easy, common sense thing that gets rid of unnecessary and archaic rules, and will only take a minute.

Is anyone or does anyone know a "council officer" or someone who would be able to actually take the list and ideas to the negotiating committee?

tomgoodman

Before submitting the petition, you might want to ask a professional editor to "shave" the grammar and spelling errors.

awax

I think you'd be well served to learn more about how your union works.

In the meantime, show up at an LEC meeting, when the agenda reaches "new business", that's when you share your idea with the other pilots in attendance. In preparation for the LEC meeting, learn how to write a resolution, and have one ready to go at the meeting. I'd bring a laptop as there's always last minute wordsmithing by the council.

ALPA National and the United MEC have clear policies about how they conduct business. The process you're suggesting is well outside of policy, and frankly I think it's a dead end.

Anyway, good luck red team leader....

awax

Following the link on the petition above, I found it interesting that the author, Tim Waggener, doesn't appear to be a United Pilot.

Chuck D

groan... there is nothing worth giving up to allow beards at work. Personally I enjoy seeing how far I can get into one on days off - can get a pretty decent one going sometimes

Shrek

Hopefully people senior to me start growing beards

Regularguy

Wow why don't we just allow shorts and flip flops or maybe casual Fridays for a start.

Yep the slippery slope of no hats or coats is now headed towards beards.

Hey I have enough hair on top my head so maybe I can be allowed to grow it out and have a "man bun."

Or maybe you all will figure out that having uniforms and grooming standards make life a whole lot easier. Why? Because there's no fashion decisions (or lack of the ability for many of us) to be made.

These threads are really getting silly.

https://youtu.be/2NS7Gkv4NNA