Tool of the day
06-28-2016, 07:45 AM
#8431
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by captjns
Yeah, the crew could have done their homework. Very easy to review Pans Ops and Jeppy Manuals. Laziness comes into mind. However, at the end of the day, I vote for crappy training from those who've never been further from the underground from ATL. Operators within Austrial Asia know how this stuff works. Why not DAL? The other day, listening to a crew arguing with Brisbane Center justifying SLOP whilst operating in radar contact in Brisbane Center's radar without appropriate clearance. Argggg.
06-28-2016, 09:37 AM
#8432
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: C-17 IP
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Dolphinflyer
I'll also admit the changes by MIA ATC have been as clear as mud re MIA. When over Cuba northbound to MIA, no call required, but they still want a call northbound over Haiti and the D.R.
Your guys might have taken the move to just standardize it. That might be a better move until MIA gets more consistent across all the FIR's excluding the NY Oceanic airspace.
Your guys might have taken the move to just standardize it. That might be a better move until MIA gets more consistent across all the FIR's excluding the NY Oceanic airspace.
07-04-2016, 12:01 PM
#8433
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
I'm most of the way through a trip with someone I'm going to call Bob, who is a good nominee for TOTD.
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.
He started the trip by berating the flight attendants for going to get coffee after their 5am check in, since he needed to give them a stupidly detailed weather breifing that contained zero useful information.
Once in the airplane, he then yelled at one of the FA's for setting their coffee inside the flight deck door, citing a rule about open beverages that's actually intended to keep pilots from putting cup holders over the circuit breaker panels.
When the APU is running and the cabin reaches a nice temperature during boarding , he just shuts the APU off since it "saves fuel", despite the fact that it warms up really fast in the back without the APU bleed going, and it's often pushing 80 back there by the time we finish boarding.
Every single time I answer a call from ATC, he "corrects" me with "callsign first!", since he's convinced that all radio calls must start with our callsign and flight number.
If I touch anything on my FMS in flight (as pilot monitoring) without his express permission, I get yelled at because "only the pilot flying can change the flight plan!".
On a gusty crosswind landing in Montana, using the brakes to slow down earned me a repremand because "the runway is over 10,000ft, you should use rollout braking".
After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.
He started the trip by berating the flight attendants for going to get coffee after their 5am check in, since he needed to give them a stupidly detailed weather breifing that contained zero useful information.
Once in the airplane, he then yelled at one of the FA's for setting their coffee inside the flight deck door, citing a rule about open beverages that's actually intended to keep pilots from putting cup holders over the circuit breaker panels.
When the APU is running and the cabin reaches a nice temperature during boarding , he just shuts the APU off since it "saves fuel", despite the fact that it warms up really fast in the back without the APU bleed going, and it's often pushing 80 back there by the time we finish boarding.
Every single time I answer a call from ATC, he "corrects" me with "callsign first!", since he's convinced that all radio calls must start with our callsign and flight number.
If I touch anything on my FMS in flight (as pilot monitoring) without his express permission, I get yelled at because "only the pilot flying can change the flight plan!".
On a gusty crosswind landing in Montana, using the brakes to slow down earned me a repremand because "the runway is over 10,000ft, you should use rollout braking".
After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
07-04-2016, 12:12 PM
#8435
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by cactusflyer
I'm most of the way through a trip with someone I'm going to call Bob, who is a good nominee for TOTD.
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.
He started the trip by berating the flight attendants for going to get coffee after their 5am check in, since he needed to give them a stupidly detailed weather breifing that contained zero useful information.
Once in the airplane, he then yelled at one of the FA's for setting their coffee inside the flight deck door, citing a rule about open beverages that's actually intended to keep pilots from putting cup holders over the circuit breaker panels.
When the APU is running and the cabin reaches a nice temperature during boarding , he just shuts the APU off since it "saves fuel", despite the fact that it warms up really fast in the back without the APU bleed going, and it's often pushing 80 back there by the time we finish boarding.
Every single time I answer a call from ATC, he "corrects" me with "callsign first!", since he's convinced that all radio calls must start with our callsign and flight number.
If I touch anything on my FMS in flight (as pilot monitoring) without his express permission, I get yelled at because "only the pilot flying can change the flight plan!".
On a gusty crosswind landing in Montana, using the brakes to slow down earned me a repremand because "the runway is over 10,000ft, you should use rollout braking".
After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.
He started the trip by berating the flight attendants for going to get coffee after their 5am check in, since he needed to give them a stupidly detailed weather breifing that contained zero useful information.
Once in the airplane, he then yelled at one of the FA's for setting their coffee inside the flight deck door, citing a rule about open beverages that's actually intended to keep pilots from putting cup holders over the circuit breaker panels.
When the APU is running and the cabin reaches a nice temperature during boarding , he just shuts the APU off since it "saves fuel", despite the fact that it warms up really fast in the back without the APU bleed going, and it's often pushing 80 back there by the time we finish boarding.
Every single time I answer a call from ATC, he "corrects" me with "callsign first!", since he's convinced that all radio calls must start with our callsign and flight number.
If I touch anything on my FMS in flight (as pilot monitoring) without his express permission, I get yelled at because "only the pilot flying can change the flight plan!".
On a gusty crosswind landing in Montana, using the brakes to slow down earned me a repremand because "the runway is over 10,000ft, you should use rollout braking".
After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
07-04-2016, 02:13 PM
#8436
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,901
Originally Posted by cactusflyer
I'm most of the way through a trip with someone I'm going to call Bob, who is a good nominee for TOTD.
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.......
.....After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
Bob has decided he's on a holy mission from God to correct the fact that everyone doesn't follow the manuals 100% of the time on every leg, and hes singlehandedly going to badger every single FO and flight attendant into compliance.......
.....After about six legs of this BS, I (mostly) politely pointed out that I flew my last two trips with check airmen who had zero complaints about how I do my job, which was greeted with "well, the check airmen teach cultural procedures, not what's in the manuals".
At the end of the day, your airline of today is the same airline, different paint job. Now a days, there's seems to be a "Chapter, Section, Page" brown nosing possum breath who can't pull up the Chapter Section Page of the Manual they are citing. Sort of the world according to Garp.
Hope the putz enjoys twang in his airline coffee.
Last edited by captjns; 07-04-2016 at 02:39 PM.
07-04-2016, 02:36 PM
#8438
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by Hrkdrivr
Cactus, are you at AA (guess based on your nic)?
Flying with this guy reminds me of the quote from Futurama "he's technically correct, which is the best kind of correct", since the stuff he's saying is indeed in the manuals, but he refuses to admit that there's some room for common sense in how strictly said manuals are followed by the other 99% of pilots here.
Hilariously, he got an airplane stuck in the mud at an airport some time ago after blindly following the taxiway centerline, despite the fact that our manuals mention the need for intentionally oversteering to keep the mains on pavement in some situations.
07-04-2016, 02:37 PM
#8439
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 1,530
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
This is the easiest job in the world. Why do some guys work so hard to make it so difficult?
They attempt make up for it by boning-up on useless legalese from their (frequently outdated) expansive book knowledge.
07-04-2016, 03:00 PM
#8440
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,901
By the Cactus Flyer, next time you fly with Captain Fantastic cite the following regarding proper R/T procedures.
Call sign follows the read back of clearances.
Call sign follows the read back of clearances.
Note 1.— Air traffic control clearances, instructions and information requiring readback are specified in the Procedures for Air Navigation Services — Rules of the Air and Air Traffic Services (PANS-RAC, Doc 4444).
Note 2.— The following example illustrates the application of this procedure:
(ATC clearance by network station to an aircraft)
Station:
TWA NINE SIX THREE MADRID
Aircraft:
MADRID TWA NINE SIX THREE — GO AHEAD
Station:
TWA NINE SIX THREE MADRID — ATC CLEARS TWA NINE SIX THREE TO DESCEND TO NINE THOUSAND FEET
Aircraft (acknowledging):
CLEARED TO DESCEND TO NINE THOUSAND FEET — TWA NINE SIX THREE
Station (denoting accuracy of readback):
MADRID
Note 2.— The following example illustrates the application of this procedure:
(ATC clearance by network station to an aircraft)
Station:
TWA NINE SIX THREE MADRID
Aircraft:
MADRID TWA NINE SIX THREE — GO AHEAD
Station:
TWA NINE SIX THREE MADRID — ATC CLEARS TWA NINE SIX THREE TO DESCEND TO NINE THOUSAND FEET
Aircraft (acknowledging):
CLEARED TO DESCEND TO NINE THOUSAND FEET — TWA NINE SIX THREE
Station (denoting accuracy of readback):
MADRID
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