Hate to burst your bubble, but volunteer time is something important to loads of other industries as well.

HR isn't hiring you to just be a good pilot, they also want you to be a good employee. *gasp* How horrible.

If you don't understand why volunteerism is a criteria that is valued, instead of raging against the system like a 12 y/o angry at his dad maybe you can look into why companies have this practice.

I can guarantee you it has little to do with pandering to a millennial's social justice leanings.

 

That would be a difficult decision in your scenario, but it's not realistic. For one, they don't hire just one person at a time for classes, they hire a couple dozen, and in your scenario, likely all ten would be hired.

Secondly, it's never the case where everyone has the exact same hours, experience or types. There will always be slight differences in those metrics amongst the candidates. Use that as a determining factor, not whether they volunteered at a soup kitchen or not.

It appears it's getting to the point where they're almost forcing people to do these things, instead of people doing it out of the kindness of their heart. Hell, we all know that regional pilots barely have the time to give to their spouses and kids with the schedules they have, and expecting them to give some of that precious time to others at the expense of your family is unreasonable and unrealistic.

 

Well, I'm coming from the oil & gas industry over the past decade, and they couldn't care less about what you did with your spare time and whether or not you were "helping to make the world a better place". All they cared about was your previous industry experience, knowledge, recommendations and work ethic. Actual things that related to the job you were interviewing for, not trivial things you did on your time off.

Like I said, when choosing a surgeon, you shouldn't base your decision on whether he goes fishing on his yacht on his days off, or fixes cleft palates for third world kids (unless you're having cleft palate surgery), and neither should they hire pilots based on that.

To your bolded statement: The reason I don't like it is this. I'm entering the industry once again after many years away. I'm going to have to commute as a very junior FO, and then hopefully a very junior CA. I will barely have enough time to keep my marriage together and maintain my home. I will not have time to volunteer for anything unless I neglect my marriage or my home, and to expect me to do it is unreasonable and unrealistic.

If you're a senior pilot, living in base and can hold a decent line with a good bit of time off (which I will never have), great, knock yourself out and give Mother Teresa a run for her money, but don't force me to do it and ruin my marriage in the process.

So if I'm coming off as "raging against the machine" for being more concerned about keeping my marriage intact than "being a good citizen", then so be it. My marriage is more important to me than what some HR person thinks "makes me a good citizen". I think being a good husband makes me "a good person".

And being "a good employee" and "a good citizen" aren't mutually exclusive. You can be one or the other, both, or neither of them.

 

Here's a scenario. HR is interviewing 2 pilots, both have the same flight times and types. Both are very nice people who have great recommendations and reputations with their coworkers.

Pilot A is single, lived most of their time in base, and has extracurricular activities that would rival Mother Teresa.

Pilot B is married and has 2 kids, and commutes to work because they don't want to pull their kids out of a school they love and excel at, and has immediate family on both sides where they live. Pilot B is a great parent and spouse. They spend every moment they are home with their children, spouse, and family.

Which one of these pilots is a "better person"? According to HR, it's obviously pilot A, which is bull$hit.

"Being a good citizen" is incredibly subjective, and basing your opinion on what someone does in their spare time is ridiculous. I think that that being a great parent and spouse is "being a good citizen".

Well, I'm going to live my life as I see fit to. On the few days I'm at home, I'm going to spend my time fixing things around the house, doing yardwork, and spending time with my wife. Occasionally I may be able to join her at our RV at the beach and do some fishing (which she loves to do) and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm not going to be on my deathbed thinking, "I should have spent more time doing volunteer work instead of with my wife and family".

 

Flyboy, I sincerely mean no disrespect to you when I say this, but are you as exhausted firing out posts obsessing/complaining about things you can’t control as I am reading them?? Seriously, chill the f out. Obsessing about things in this industry you have no control over will do absolutely nothing to help you and will drive you to insanity. Don’t put yourself through that.

What you should do is analyze what your goals are, pick a regional that will give you the best means to get there (maximize your QOL by living in/within driving distance from base if that’s important to you, or fly your butt off in the right seat/left seat if building 121 TPIC quickly is important to you), focus on learning the operation and airplane you’re flying until it’s instinctive, and get through probation. The path to a legacy is a marathon, not a sprint. It takes a few years. And since age is a factor for you, the LCC’s offer similar pay, benefits and QOL as the legacies. And they don’t even necessarily require TPIC to get hired.

 

Thanks Glenn. I'm not obsessing over it, but it concerns me that something so trivial as "how much volunteer work I've done" can torpedo my chances at a major.

I guess I'm just longing for the days when your flying credentials and merit got you a job at at a major, and not like now where it's largely based on your sex, race and "extracurricular activities". I believe in merit based hiring, and not some HR person's perception of me based upon their subjective opinion.

I guess this goes back to my days as an FE flying with a female FO who was bragging about her upcoming interview with the old United, and how she was pretty much guaranteed the job by HR. We had CA's who were infinitely more qualified than her that couldn't even get a return email from them, much less an interview. And I'm not blaming her, she was taking full advantage of a broken system. As you can see, I'm not a big fan of HR depatments.

 

This is exactly my plan.

And like I've said before, at my age, probably my most realistic best case scenario is flying out the rest of my career with an LCC/ULCC.

Thanks again for the advice bud. Cheers.

 

Turn it around and ask the HR interviewer the same thing. Watch them stammer.

 

Exactly.

The old "Do as I say, not as I do" syndrome.

That's what I'm getting at. We need to stop playing their stupid game. Tell them the damn truth. "I'm a regional pilot that commutes to work, and I have very little time at home. I'm sorry, but I don't have time to save the world, and take care of my family. I'm a loving and caring father and husband, and I'm dedicating my life to taking care of my family. What else do you want to know about me?"

But no, we play their games, "Oh, I'm a Big Brother to disadvantaged children, and I volunteer at the soup kitchen every chance I get, and I visit a retirement home several times a week to visit with the guests. My kids barely know my name and face, and my wife is divorcing me because I'm never home, but I'm giving back to the community!

Stop the madness people!

 

#1: you win an interview by getting hired, not by insulting the interviewer.

#2: why are you acting like any non-profit work is a death knell to your marriage?

I volunteer with a few organizations, but let's just look at one. Habitat for Humanity. We're a fairly active affiliate, doing 4 home builds and around 15 repairs each year. I'm a board member, on two committees and I run the bi-annual financial education classes. For the most part, this commitment eats up 2 lunch meetings and two evenings (each lasting less than 1.5 hours) each month. The events this organization hosts are nice and my wife and I use them as date nights. Most folks volunteering here spend 1/4th of that time.

But, whatever you want to tell yourselves for not helping out in your own community. I swear, you guys are almost worse than the folks who refuse to get a college degree, then post on here about how the airlines need to change their ways to accommodate your own stubborn decision.