PasserOGas

Delta is a larger carrier. They have more pilots to pay those high wages to. That is what you fail to see. Their size is irrelivant. Its all about profit margins.

So demanding a price for your service is socialism? I will remind Airbus that since they charge jetblew and Delta the same price for airplanes. Your argument about size doesn't sway them.

P-3Bubba

This is the company that’s constantly faced financial litigation from pay discrepancies, accounting and employment agreements. They ALWAYS come out with the positive side of the outcome. So 92 or 34? Anybody got the phone number to Emirates? We’ll give Powers a call.

-Bubs

GuppyPuppy

The $34M is after the 5% cliff. That's what is left over.

Gup

Bluedriver

Unreal! I can't believe there is ONE SINGLE JUICEBOX LEFT. But there is.

Bluedriver

Whole-E-Sheet. Again with the Delta has more planes and pilots!

Learn:

Very disappointing post STD.

Your argument for not getting DL rates (DL, UAL and AA are all virtually identical) seems to be:

1. They have more pilots.

2. They have a higher market cap, in other words the total value of the company is higher.

As for more pilots, who cares? All that guarantees is they have more paychecks to write at that higher rate! It doesn't guarantee any other meaningful metric at all. They could be larger, yet still be a money losing enterprise!

As for market cap value, they are much larger corporations, and they are profitable, so it's not unusual that the big 3 have higher total market values. Market capitalization also fluctuates from one quarterly stock report to the next as Spirit and United have shown us recently. What does that matter? Those things aren't really relevant because they don't adjust for the scale of the operation. To say it another way, that metric alone doesn't provide enough information to gauge how profitable an enterprise is relative to it's size.

Profit margin, or how much profit we earn relative to each dollar of corporate revenue is a much more meaningful way to compare corporate profitability because it adjusts for scale, or at least it can show how smaller companies can be more profitable than a larger company relative to our size. That's us!

We earn more profit per dollar of revenue than the big 3. In the case of UAL and AA, a LOT more. We trade "highest margin" back and forth with SWA.

We can afford and should expect compensation in line with the big 4. And we have 1/4 the number of pilot paychecks to write at that comparable pay rate. You see, scale adjusted!

hyperboy

I can't believe you can call out people and bully on here but when I call you out like a man.......so quiet!

Tough guy behind the keyboard...

RiddleEagle18

2nd lowest paid airbus pilots in the US. Keeps getting better!!


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Std Dev, I am once again forced to respond because you have some severe misunderstandings.

Socialism
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Demanding industry standard wages is not socialism. Socialism is government tyrannical control over corporations. This is what the Bernie-sandonistas want. What I advocate is for us to take a more active role in defining that we are a market force of our own. This IS a vital element of capitalism.

For the record, I am a Libertarian which makes me more conservative than the vast majority of so called RINO "conservatives". As such, I advocate for even far less control over government intervention. In fact, I wish we didn't have the Railway Labour Act. The RLA gives all the power to the company and virtually none to us, since there's such a high barrier to getting to a strike. Without the RLA, we could lawfully organize and strike in a week to get the wage we are deserved by market forces.

Doctors demanding at Baylor
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If you don't see yourself equal to a medical doctor, engineer, scientist, you are probably a substandard pilot. I come from a STEM background with multiple degrees and 20+ yrs of military flying. I say this because it gives credibility to my statement that being a pilot is on the same level as a medical doctor, engineer, scientist, etc. I have been both things at civilian jobs, the military, and now an airline. The level of knowledge required of a pilot is just as high, if not higher, which I tell you through personal accomplished experience. I could lay out all the books I've ever had to read for my pilot job and it's easily twice the length of 2 collections of Encyclopedia Britannica (if anyone remembers, they are almost 12 ft. long). Your job is extremely technical. A good pilot is cross disciplined, having a cursory knowledge of various disciplines of engineering, science, and even the service industry (MBA stuff). If you are sitting back and coasting on your proficiency in daily operations, you are an inferior pilot (alluding to a quote from General Chuck Yeager). I hope you aren't one of those guys that has no problem cruising at Recommended Max Altitude or not even knowing what Mach Tuck is.

The reason that you don't see Doctors organizing the way we do is because they do it in other ways. I say this from my sister's viewpoint (a medical doctor), my own corporate experience, and what I learn from mostly friends in those industries... Firstly, doctors have professional organizations such as the American Medical Association and other state NGOs. Those NGOs are professional because they control training, standards, testing, and certification. They control the supply of doctors which has the secondary effect of also creating demand. They dictate how many doctors can go to med school, the minimum standard of someone who can go to med school, and the curriculum. Pilots have no such professional organization. We only have enthusiast organizations. This is why any Joe with no degree or high school diploma could be an airline pilot. Secondly, medical doctors negotiate on an individual basis at the core. Sure, doctors are given standard rates but this is a hospital by hospital decision. Each hospital company is free to pay a doctor whatever they want in order to get that doctor. That doctor can always name his price. Before I flew airplanes, I dictated my price and always got it. Pilots have never truly demanded they be treated like professionals (e.g. blue gloves) so they are left only to unionize.

Again, I can't stress enough that you are no different than other professionals such as medical doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, etc. For some reason, I think you see yourself as a doctor from Scrubs or some other TV doctor.



Industry Average
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We fly Airbus and Emb airplanes with X number of pax across international borders. Anyone who does the same things is fair game for comparison. This includes Delta, United, SWA, etc.... If we look at it mathematically, we are not being compensated accordingly to the industry standard. Don't cross the streams. I'm not saying that "industry average" is an entitlement or legal requirement. I am saying that each of us, as "individual certificated professionals" (our FAA certificates allow us to exercise our services for any employer but under the same FAA regulations of the certificate), must make the decision that we are worth a certain amount. Thus, we band together as a union to work within the system (RLA) to get what other certificated professionals of our stratification are worth.

For the record, I attack management overcompensation because it is my opinion that their skillset and job difficulty is not tantamount to ours or other professionals. There is absolutely no evidence that upper management is worth the amount of money they are getting. The difference between them and us is that senior management spends all their life creating market forces to increase the perception of their worth and thus boards overcompensate them. They created their own market force of perceived worth, which is something we need to be better at.

Please don't say things like welfare or handouts. That's certainly not the case. It's nothing more than we will not accept providing a service for our employer without getting the compensation we feel our services are worth.

If you don't see yourself as General Chuck Yeager, you are wrong (and probably a low-standards pilot).

hilltopflyer

Thank you. As a relative of a doctor, they definitely look st what others are making. Insurance has changed the game completely and it's a reason so many are going into dermatology, plastics etc. They negotiate their own rate and look at other markets to help on their negotiations. It's not hard, it's what most professions do.

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