Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Pilot unions are different than any other unions since we are held under laws/rules that favor management and due to our seniority system that no other professional labor force has to deal with. Hence why there are a lot of conservative pilots who are also pro union when it comes to airline pilots. That’s a fact. And one you refuse to acknowledge or debate. Comparing our union environment to the general union environment of say electricians, teachers, plumbers, etc is disingenuous, as is saying our wages are artificially inflated due to unions. Your blanket union statement was absolutely meant to apply to our profession. Now you seem to want to back out of it and say you weren’t talking specifically about our profession. If the market were left to be free, the RLA would be repealed/amended to fit airline pilots, and management wouldn’t have us by the footballs every single round of negotiations. We could move on to a different company (just like our execs do) whenever, and start at the same or better pay/QOL.



We don’t live in that environment, and the fact that people like you who seem like you might be somewhat intelligent and put thought into this stuff, yet work against yourself by not supporting your union, blows my mind. And the fact that you think you need to subsidize JetBlue’s growth with your wages is also baffling. $1.25bil in buybacks southerner. And $1.15bil in profits. How do you need to get paid less to allow us to grow again? Glad you are just happy to work here and help subsidize the company. JetBlue keeps pulling for you (but won’t pay you). Even analysts expect our wages to go up and be higher. Not you, though. Just happy to throw on blue gloves, no lanyard, and be a good helper for 30-50% less pay than your peers.

Originally Posted by hilltopflyer

Anyone else get a private message from someone who doesn't have any post on apc asking when the next rally event was or where he can help picket on the 31st? Really seemed like a management troll.

Originally Posted by Southerner

The seniority system is a union construct, not a company construct.


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Originally Posted by atrdriver

I think a non-union airline popped up in NYC back at the turn of the century and adopted a seniority system, and a philosophy of taking advantage of their workers through propaganda and cyncism.

So how is seniority not a company construct at JB?

Originally Posted by Southerner

Seniority is a union construct because without seniority the company could favor some pilots over others, etc. Do you guys know nothing about the history of our industry? Seniority as a means of determining rank and pay comes directly from organized work forces.

Click the link, and look under "in employment." The following is an excerpt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seniority

"In unionised companies, employees with more seniority may enjoy more work privileges. Here are examples:

Shift work at more favourable times

Work that is deemed easier or more pleasurable

Working hours at a more convenient time (convenience being relative to the employee)

Assignment to work, when a work reduction, or a reduction in available work hours results in layoffs

Seniority also has an influence over bumping rights, which is a reassignment of jobs, possibly for many people at a time."


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Originally Posted by atrdriver

Thank you for the history lesson. I believe we are all well aware. (Also news flash: we have seniority and the company still favors some pilots over others. You know what I'm talking about.)



At this point you're not even trying to back up your arguments. You're just posting non-sequiturs in a bizarre attempt to make yourself look reasonable.



You're the guy at the party who makes the opposite argument just for the sake of it and irritates everyone in the process. Maybe that's the same reason you refuse to follow your MEC's request to wear a lanyard and support your fellow pilots.



If you want to volunteer your services, maybe consider Angel Flight instead of JetBlue. We aren't a flying club. We are here to make market wages to create value for our employer.

Originally Posted by Southerner

I was engaging in a discussion with another member, and involved yourself in our discussion. It isn't my fault if you can't follow the conversation.


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Originally Posted by tomgoodman

Of course unions distort the market. It’s their duty to extract more than Management would freely give, and everybody knows it.

Low pay scales exist when the market is not distorted enough.