I did IOE during that time with 300 hour new hires and had no bad experiences. In fact our new hires came from formal training backgrounds and were highly motivated, with the exception of a few ERAU brats.

However, the quality of pilots on the SL list is in direct proportion to the training they get after they’re hired, and training needs to be tailored to the experience of the pilots being hired.

I can see a company like ours having little success with low time new hires because they will not modify the training program accordingly. They’ll just do what they always do; force feed the material and get frustrated at the expanding footprint.

The real problems started with the ATP rule because pilots that didn’t get the job before did now, not because they were qualified but because they were the only applicants with 1500 hours/ATP, and they had little to no formal training or quality experience. That’s when IOE went to 40-100 hours and the washout rate went up.

I’d much prefer to hire low time pilots with a formal training background than higher time pilots with 1500 hours of hundred dollar hamburgers.

The “you can’t be a good pilot without tons of hours” rhetoric is BS from egomaniacs who had to pay more dues to get here than those coming through the pipeline now or in the future.

 

That will never happen when there’s already a staffing crunch.

 

That’s exactly why… here’s an issue that can give the Congress an appearance of a “win.” “Look at how we solved the pilot shortage”. No one is up there looking out for their 64 year old neighbor. I’ll bet there is a lot of phone calls to reps over losing regional service to their hometown airport though.

 

I think they’re doing because there’s a staffing issue and the airlines’ lobbyists are pushing for it. So LG, under pressure from his donors is pushing this as good for our career when it all has to do with corporate interests.

 

So a 300hr guy with “formal training” is better than a experienced guy with 2,000hrs?

Less experience is better?

Also I didn’t wear a tie when I was working towards my solo decades ago, was I not formal enough?

 

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2000 hours of ga flying or in a baron flying some guy around is not as good as formal training where from day one they teach and reinforce airline procedures and CRM. I have personally experienced it and data from the regionals comparing the two support it.

Does it make one better than the other walking in the door? Maybe, maybe not. But the ones with a more structured training background are definitely more teachable and in the long run a more competent pilot.

The argument I’m making is less hours doesn’t make one a lessor pilot if the training is good. And a high time pilot can still suck if he doesn’t have a good training and experience background.



Smart Alec comments about ties doesn’t change the facts.

 

No it's just cheaper and easier to implement (for the powers that be) than some sort of rigorous training and selection program. The "selection" part would have to be rigorous too, otherwise people could just buy all the extra training they need.

I don't think the ATP rule is the end-all, be-all, but it's better than nothing.

 

This is exactly what is going on. Most foreign flag carriers have been using ab initio since the bulk of WW2 pilots dried up. The problem is it is very expensive for the airline and the selection process is rigorous. The US carriers will do anything they can to avoid setting up their own flight schools. Having a newhire who financed his own training and slogged it through CFI'ing and regionals for 5-10 years is much cheaper.

In any event, long term the US carriers will eventually be forced to set ab initio up.

 

Here's a link to the actual language of the bill and its status moving through committee: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-...3/text?s=1&r=1

 

Lol

So playing make believe airline pilot in a 172 or Seminole as a student and later instructor is going to put you ahead of the guy actually working the industry, fly across the country, dealing with real enroute weather, IMC, ice, etc for a few thousand hours? No

Call outs and the other stuff you’re talking about I could train anyone, give them some stuff to memorize, couple sessions and there you go, it’s mostly rote

Dealing with paying needy pax on that dark stormy night as a pilot putting food on the table, being able to make it work or propose a alternate plan, or knowing when to call it and having the balls to do so
Actually working crossing thunderstorms, dealing with line people and FBO arrangements, heck just taxing at major airports 200hr wonders don’t go to, that’s experience

A baron, at 2k hrs you probably wouldn’t be flying a baron, around 1,000tt you should be PIC in some type of turbine, that said it is more impressive flying a turbo prop, or even baron compared to a jet, below 10k it’s all 250 or less anyways and getting closer to the airport you’re probably all going to be going about the same speed, however in the jet I fly I can pop above most all of the weather, turbo prop or your baron is going to be doing much more work at their altitude