The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
12-15-2010, 04:11 AM
#62
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: B-737 Right
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by needmo
so... Mastercraft...How did you get hired onto Southwest with such a LUVable attitude toward your fellow pilots? You must be a hoot to fly with...unless, of course, you are just the "brave while anonymous" type.
I've looked back at all of your prior posts...now I understand why you are "flaming".......upset about the years of seniority you gave up to make that leap huh?
I've looked back at all of your prior posts...now I understand why you are "flaming".......upset about the years of seniority you gave up to make that leap huh?
12-16-2010, 07:30 AM
#65
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Bottom line: the companies need each other, and the assets of either side are just as valuble to the other. In management's eyes, both of you will do the same function before and after, and they have absolutely zero ambition to ruin the merger by trying to play favorites. This is why the arbitration will be driven, promptly, to something that works for the company.
SWA to order 20 firm Boeing 737-800, aims to serve Hawaii
Southwest Airlines Chairman, President and CEO Gary Kelly told the Wings Club in New York City that SWA has notified Boeing that it will “substitute 20 of its 737-700 orders for -800s,” with the first delivery scheduled for March 2012. The airline had made known its desire to add the larger type into its fleet of 737-700s, -300s and -500s but needed to get approval from its pilot and cabin crew unions first.
In a statement, the airline said it is "continuing to finalize discussions" with Boeing regarding "substitutions of the -800s for the -700 positions, and configuration and equipage options."
Kelly said the current plan is to take the 20 aircraft in 180-minute ETOPs configuration. The aircraft "would bring us to more distant markets like Hawaii, Cancun, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda," he said.
Regarding SWA’s pending acquisition of AirTran, Kelly said it “boosts our profitability, which is key to resuming investment in our business,” and brings an “additional 38 cities” into the SWA network. Coupled with the 72 cities SWA serves today, Kelly noted this creates a “whole host of expansion opportunities simply by virtue of “connecting the two route networks together.” This can all be accomplished, he said, “without adding an aircraft or raising fares.”
Kelly also announced 10 additional daily nonstop flights from Newark Liberty with three daily nonstops to Baltimore/Washington International, three daily nonstops to Denver, two daily nonstops to Houston Hobby, and two daily nonstops to Phoenix Sky Harbor, beginning June 5, 2011. These cities join the previously announced nonstop service from Newarkto Chicago Midway with six nonstop flights, and St. Louiswith two nonstop flights—which begins March 27, 2011—providing Newarka total of 18 daily SWA departures. SWA acquired slots at EWR from United Airlines and Continental Airlines under an agreement between those carriers and the US Dept. of Justice.
Southwest Airlines Chairman, President and CEO Gary Kelly told the Wings Club in New York City that SWA has notified Boeing that it will “substitute 20 of its 737-700 orders for -800s,” with the first delivery scheduled for March 2012. The airline had made known its desire to add the larger type into its fleet of 737-700s, -300s and -500s but needed to get approval from its pilot and cabin crew unions first.
In a statement, the airline said it is "continuing to finalize discussions" with Boeing regarding "substitutions of the -800s for the -700 positions, and configuration and equipage options."
Kelly said the current plan is to take the 20 aircraft in 180-minute ETOPs configuration. The aircraft "would bring us to more distant markets like Hawaii, Cancun, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda," he said.
Regarding SWA’s pending acquisition of AirTran, Kelly said it “boosts our profitability, which is key to resuming investment in our business,” and brings an “additional 38 cities” into the SWA network. Coupled with the 72 cities SWA serves today, Kelly noted this creates a “whole host of expansion opportunities simply by virtue of “connecting the two route networks together.” This can all be accomplished, he said, “without adding an aircraft or raising fares.”
Kelly also announced 10 additional daily nonstop flights from Newark Liberty with three daily nonstops to Baltimore/Washington International, three daily nonstops to Denver, two daily nonstops to Houston Hobby, and two daily nonstops to Phoenix Sky Harbor, beginning June 5, 2011. These cities join the previously announced nonstop service from Newarkto Chicago Midway with six nonstop flights, and St. Louiswith two nonstop flights—which begins March 27, 2011—providing Newarka total of 18 daily SWA departures. SWA acquired slots at EWR from United Airlines and Continental Airlines under an agreement between those carriers and the US Dept. of Justice.
On another note, is SW going to have to give back (or give up) any slots as a result of this merger? That seems to be a condition of the DoJ for every other merger.
12-16-2010, 11:46 AM
#66
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
If anyone out there could offer me a 60% payraise, better schedule, and more domicile choices with a stable established company I'D STAPLE MYSELF RIGHT F'N NOW.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
12-16-2010, 12:27 PM
#67
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by mastercraft
I don't deny that AT brings equity to the table. They are a hard-working, prefessional group of pilots who have been beaten down for years. That doesn't greatly change my opinions though.
If their pilots wanted better, they could have left for SWA, or anyone else. In fact, many tried at SWA(think hundreds...literally). Few were accepted. Hundreds of other AT pilots left for CAL, DAL, UPS, FedEx, Cathay, Emarites, etc. The ones who stayed now want in on a big piece of something much bigger than they ever could have reasonably imagined.
While I understand your tendancy to relate this to DAL/NWA, it just isn't an apples to apples comparison. I know some NWA pilots saw considerable raises...but certainly not 75-80%. The vastly superior schedules and number of days off weren't the case either. Not to mention that one surely wasn't four times the size of the other.
If their pilots wanted better, they could have left for SWA, or anyone else. In fact, many tried at SWA(think hundreds...literally). Few were accepted. Hundreds of other AT pilots left for CAL, DAL, UPS, FedEx, Cathay, Emarites, etc. The ones who stayed now want in on a big piece of something much bigger than they ever could have reasonably imagined.
While I understand your tendancy to relate this to DAL/NWA, it just isn't an apples to apples comparison. I know some NWA pilots saw considerable raises...but certainly not 75-80%. The vastly superior schedules and number of days off weren't the case either. Not to mention that one surely wasn't four times the size of the other.
I know this doesn't matter much to this discussion, just correcting the record.
Carl
12-16-2010, 12:43 PM
#68
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Sink r8
My compliments to my Northwest brothers from another mother, that defended their interests as much as we defended ours, but for the most part are looking forward.
Originally Posted by Sink r8
It's not so bad when we're busy arguing about IT systems.
Now we see promise that we'll move to the digital age:
Oh well...baby steps I guess.
Carl
12-16-2010, 12:48 PM
#69
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
Career expectations are a non-starter in the LUV/AAI discussions no matter how much LUV pilots want them to be. In the case of Shuttle America, you had an airline whose life expectancy was measured in days.
Not so with AAI.
Not so with AAI.
Carl
12-16-2010, 12:58 PM
#70
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
The problem here is Matercraft made a move from AAI to LUV, with the intent of moving up, and now finds himself staring at scenarios where he might end up junior to people he was formerly senior to. I've heard of a few similar cases in other mergers, including ours, and this kind of thing simply makes you sort of shake your head. In a way, you gotta feel for the guy, not because what's happening is unfair, but because it's bad luck.
Then again, the moves mastercraft made, and the choices he took, are not the responsibility of other pilots. Some may have made the reverse calculation and made a conscious decision to stay in anticipation of a merger, while others simply remained at AAI because it was good enough for them. Regardless of how people ended up on the two respective seniority lists, the SLI should look at the pilots groups in general, including specific demographics, to craft a fair outcome. That doesn't entail correcting an individual's fate, or altering their place within a respective list. Mastercraft is a junior LUV pilot, and that's how he'll be considered in the SLI.
Then again, the moves mastercraft made, and the choices he took, are not the responsibility of other pilots. Some may have made the reverse calculation and made a conscious decision to stay in anticipation of a merger, while others simply remained at AAI because it was good enough for them. Regardless of how people ended up on the two respective seniority lists, the SLI should look at the pilots groups in general, including specific demographics, to craft a fair outcome. That doesn't entail correcting an individual's fate, or altering their place within a respective list. Mastercraft is a junior LUV pilot, and that's how he'll be considered in the SLI.
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