The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
12-16-2010, 01:46 PM
#71
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Sink r8 is right here. NWA guys were shocked to see no credit for date of hire, and DAL guys were shocked to see pull and plug. After the initial shock, reality sets in and you just move ahead. My guess is that AirTran won't get any credit for their dates of hire, and Southwest will lose some relative position. You'll be shocked, then angry, then you'll just move ahead.
This is true as well, but the arguments are coming to an end with regard to Delta's Information Technology. We former NWA pilots were shocked to see this as the backbone of Delta's IT:
Now we see promise that we'll move to the digital age:
Oh well...baby steps I guess.
Carl
This is true as well, but the arguments are coming to an end with regard to Delta's Information Technology. We former NWA pilots were shocked to see this as the backbone of Delta's IT:
Now we see promise that we'll move to the digital age:
Oh well...baby steps I guess.
Carl
Heres what ya'll don't get.. NWA's technology was this:
We need the NEXT step....
12-16-2010, 01:54 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
If anyone out there could offer me a 60% payraise, better schedule, and more domicile choices with a stable established company I'D STAPLE MYSELF RIGHT F'N NOW.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
12-16-2010, 01:57 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Sink r8
The problem here is Matercraft made a move from AAI to LUV, with the intent of moving up, and now finds himself staring at scenarios where he might end up junior to people he was formerly senior to. I've heard of a few similar cases in other mergers, including ours, and this kind of thing simply makes you sort of shake your head. In a way, you gotta feel for the guy, not because what's happening is unfair, but because it's bad luck.
Then again, the moves mastercraft made, and the choices he took, are not the responsibility of other pilots. Some may have made the reverse calculation and made a conscious decision to stay in anticipation of a merger, while others simply remained at AAI because it was good enough for them. Regardless of how people ended up on the two respective seniority lists, the SLI should look at the pilots groups in general, including specific demographics, to craft a fair outcome. That doesn't entail correcting an individual's fate, or altering their place within a respective list. Mastercraft is a junior LUV pilot, and that's how he'll be considered in the SLI.
Then again, the moves mastercraft made, and the choices he took, are not the responsibility of other pilots. Some may have made the reverse calculation and made a conscious decision to stay in anticipation of a merger, while others simply remained at AAI because it was good enough for them. Regardless of how people ended up on the two respective seniority lists, the SLI should look at the pilots groups in general, including specific demographics, to craft a fair outcome. That doesn't entail correcting an individual's fate, or altering their place within a respective list. Mastercraft is a junior LUV pilot, and that's how he'll be considered in the SLI.
There is a pilot sitting in Dubai who left AirTran in May 2010. Four months prior to the Southwest announcement. He was a Captain on the 737 and left due to a serious case of 'Frustratous Fukyouallus'.
If you listen carefully during the evening you may hear a faint thudding sound. It's him, banging his forehead against the wall of his 'Villa'.
A sad, but true story.
12-16-2010, 01:57 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
If anyone out there could offer me a 60% payraise, better schedule, and more domicile choices with a stable established company I'D STAPLE MYSELF RIGHT F'N NOW.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
Do you really think your viewpoint wouldn't change if you were to be on the bottom?
12-16-2010, 02:38 PM
#75
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
If anyone out there could offer me a 60% payraise, better schedule, and more domicile choices with a stable established company I'D STAPLE MYSELF RIGHT F'N NOW.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Not true. Career expectations are one of the major items that arbitrators try to understand prior to issuing a ruling.
12-16-2010, 02:43 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine
If anyone out there could offer me a 60% payraise, better schedule, and more domicile choices with a stable established company I'D STAPLE MYSELF RIGHT F'N NOW.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
Honestly, hand me the cash and the stapler.
Why is everyone so hooked up on seniority issues only? There's a lot that goes into this equation, and seniority is only one part of it.
LUV,
AirTran captain.
12-16-2010, 03:17 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by RCD73
There is a pilot sitting in Dubai who left AirTran in May 2010. Four months prior to the Southwest announcement. He was a Captain on the 737 and left due to a serious case of 'Frustratous Fukyouallus'.
If you listen carefully during the evening you may hear a faint thudding sound. It's him, banging his forehead against the wall of his 'Villa'.
A sad, but true story.
If you listen carefully during the evening you may hear a faint thudding sound. It's him, banging his forehead against the wall of his 'Villa'.
A sad, but true story.
This, by the way, is another reason a NSL would be a good idea. Not being married to an airline is good in times of bankruptcies, and it's good in times of mergers. If everyone had their spot on a list, it wouldn't matter what airline is dying or being born. Peoplewouldn't be taking guess as to how much seniority equity they would need to cash in for the hope the new airline would work out better.
12-16-2010, 03:28 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,838
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Not true. Career expectations are one of the major items that arbitrators try to understand prior to issuing a ruling.
Carl
Carl
But with AAI and SWA, the decisions the arbitrators will have to make are significantly simpler. No guessing on which "heavy" is more desireable. No guessing over the "better bases" issue.
20 year AAI Career expectation: 737 captain
20 year SWA Career expectation: 737 captain
Sure, there is a pay rate differential, but that can change contract to contract. Seniority, however, is forever.
But there is some similarity with the DAL/NWA situation. While SWA has a better pay rate, AAI has some fairly decent workrules and fairly good QoL protection and GREAT health insurance (far better than our "Plan N" for the same money) and a very nice defined contribution plan.
Heck, their schedule bidding closes on the 16th at 10am, and they had their results today by 3pm.
Nu
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