Junior man vs 117
01-10-2014 | 05:14 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,107
Likes: 103
117 let's you decide for yourself if you are rested.
If the company calls during a rest period and says we have a trip available, you get to make the call if you've had the 10 hours of rest. That rest was prospective because you knew it was a rest period and had no obligation to the company to do anything.
On the other hand, if the company calls, and you answer, and they FORCE a trip on you, you need the 10 hours rest before report. The preceding time was not rest because the company's position is that you have an obligation to accept a trip, which, by definition, is not rest. Simply answering the phone doesn't make it magically voluntary.
117 is an improvement. Unextended duty periods are almost always better than typical contractual limits. Extensions are always voluntary. Sure, the PIC makes the call, but a decent contract will have at least some duty limits that are more restrictive than the FARs with an extension, mitigating the "PIC makes the call" to some extent.
Nu
If the company calls during a rest period and says we have a trip available, you get to make the call if you've had the 10 hours of rest. That rest was prospective because you knew it was a rest period and had no obligation to the company to do anything.
On the other hand, if the company calls, and you answer, and they FORCE a trip on you, you need the 10 hours rest before report. The preceding time was not rest because the company's position is that you have an obligation to accept a trip, which, by definition, is not rest. Simply answering the phone doesn't make it magically voluntary.
117 is an improvement. Unextended duty periods are almost always better than typical contractual limits. Extensions are always voluntary. Sure, the PIC makes the call, but a decent contract will have at least some duty limits that are more restrictive than the FARs with an extension, mitigating the "PIC makes the call" to some extent.
Nu
01-10-2014 | 05:21 PM
#82
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
117 let's you decide for yourself if you are rested.
If the company calls during a rest period and says we have a trip available, you get to make the call if you've had the 10 hours of rest. That rest was prospective because you knew it was a rest period and had no obligation to the company to do anything.
On the other hand, if the company calls, and you answer, and they FORCE a trip on you, you need the 10 hours rest before report. The preceding time was not rest because the company's position is that you have an obligation to accept a trip, which, by definition, is not rest. Simply answering the phone doesn't make it magically voluntary.
117 is an improvement. Unextended duty periods are almost always better than typical contractual limits. Extensions are always voluntary. Sure, the PIC makes the call, but a decent contract will have at least some duty limits that are more restrictive than the FARs with an extension, mitigating the "PIC makes the call" to some extent.
Nu
If the company calls during a rest period and says we have a trip available, you get to make the call if you've had the 10 hours of rest. That rest was prospective because you knew it was a rest period and had no obligation to the company to do anything.
On the other hand, if the company calls, and you answer, and they FORCE a trip on you, you need the 10 hours rest before report. The preceding time was not rest because the company's position is that you have an obligation to accept a trip, which, by definition, is not rest. Simply answering the phone doesn't make it magically voluntary.
117 is an improvement. Unextended duty periods are almost always better than typical contractual limits. Extensions are always voluntary. Sure, the PIC makes the call, but a decent contract will have at least some duty limits that are more restrictive than the FARs with an extension, mitigating the "PIC makes the call" to some extent.
Nu
01-10-2014 | 07:50 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,836
Likes: 175
From: window seat
The big takeaway from this subject (junior assign) is that the dirt bag, pilot pushing, make pilots sleep on a piece of plywood operators need to understand that they have totally and completely lost the ability to phone ambush pilots on their days off and force them to do anything with less than 10 hours from then rest. Yeah, you can accept it if you want to, but they can't make you, and its about dang time.
01-10-2014 | 07:57 PM
#84
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Thanks for the answers. Sorry to drag you guys into Spirit infighting, that wasn't my intent. I could have done that internally on the spiritpilotboard :-)
Obviously the rule was written to address true "Junior Assignment", Spirit doesn't have true JA. We can't be JA'd by any method other than answering out designated contact phone. Which leaves us (Spirit) fighting about being "JA'd" because JA is the only way to make any premium pay. And our union wants to shut down premium pay.
Again, thanks for the input. Hopefully the Feds will eventually write tighter rules and we'll stop fighting ourselves.
Obviously the rule was written to address true "Junior Assignment", Spirit doesn't have true JA. We can't be JA'd by any method other than answering out designated contact phone. Which leaves us (Spirit) fighting about being "JA'd" because JA is the only way to make any premium pay. And our union wants to shut down premium pay.
Again, thanks for the input. Hopefully the Feds will eventually write tighter rules and we'll stop fighting ourselves.
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