Junior man vs 117
01-10-2014, 07:26 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 709
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
If you had less than 10 hours between getting the junior manned call and report time then they effing broke the law and you got taken. I'd bring that up right ricky tick.
Just to clarify the nomenclature, junior manned is being forced to take something you didn't volunteer for by putting yourself on some list on your hard days off or otherwise you initiating the phone call to pick up open time. For junior manning, absolutely the 10 hr rest period applies without exception.
Just to clarify the nomenclature, junior manned is being forced to take something you didn't volunteer for by putting yourself on some list on your hard days off or otherwise you initiating the phone call to pick up open time. For junior manning, absolutely the 10 hr rest period applies without exception.
01-10-2014, 09:54 AM
#74
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Flamer
You really need to read Jim's posts again. And maybe even borrow a dictionary from a neighbor. Off days do not automatically equal rest period. It could not be more clear, and ALPA even delineated the two in the question the FAA answered.
I'm stating that is it legal for someone to accept an assignment on their day off with less than 10 hours to report.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-10-2014 at 10:49 AM.
01-10-2014, 10:03 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,251
Originally Posted by sandlapper223
So we can drink right up until showtime? Awesome! I knew this job was great. So it's no smoking within 8 hours or no drinking within 50 ft of the aircraft. Got it, thx.
The 8-hour bottle-to-throttle (and no signs/symptoms of use) applies only once you check in for duty.
Technicalities...
01-10-2014, 10:08 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 944
Originally Posted by johnso29
Your username says all I need to know about you. Feel free to chime in if you ever want to add anything constructive.
BTW, here is how rest period is officially defined.
Rest period means a continuous period determined prospectively during which the flightcrew member is free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.
Are you responsible to the company in any way on your days off?
BTW, here is how rest period is officially defined.
Rest period means a continuous period determined prospectively during which the flightcrew member is free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.
Are you responsible to the company in any way on your days off?
01-10-2014, 10:32 AM
#77
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by captscott26
You are highlighting the wrong part. You are ignoring the "determined prospectively" part. How is it "prospective" if the company calls you for a trip and "looks back" to find the legal rest?
A regular line pilot on days off and a reserve pilot on X-days or payback (PB) days are both considered to be at rest. However, a pilot cannot accept an assignment for a rotation that begins with a flight duty period unless that pilot deems himself fit for duty per FAR 117.5.
A pilot on days off is permitted under the FAR to volunteer for additional flying (WS, GS, YS). That means it is legal for a regular line pilot and for a reserve pilot on X-days or PB days to accept an award or an inverse assignment for additional flying. In those cases, the pilot is essentially saying that he has met the requirements of FAR 117.5 and that he is fit for duty for the awarded or assigned flying. If the pilot cannot meet those requirements, he cannot accept the rotation, and must inform the company. By signing the release, each pilot is certifying that he is fit for duty for that flight.
That being said, this would only apply to a voluntary assignment. So wrapping back around to the whole junior man thing, one does not HAVE to accept the assignment if it's less than 10 hours. They can't make you. But it is legal for one to accept.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-10-2014 at 10:48 AM.
01-10-2014, 11:50 AM
#78
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 61
This 10 hour issue isn't an issue with airlines such as Delta which have a system in place to put in for premium trips. The problem is Spirit scheduling is disorganized and lazy group who offer 200% via a system which determines the award based on if you are the lucky (familiar?) caller.
They still don't run through a reverse list to JA as per the contract.
System is broken.
Perhaps if we stopped picking up open time some pressure would be exerted.
They still don't run through a reverse list to JA as per the contract.
System is broken.
Perhaps if we stopped picking up open time some pressure would be exerted.
01-10-2014, 03:28 PM
#79
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: Dispatcher / Meteorolgist
Posts: 49
hmmm...JA
Please explain.
If I am on my dayoff ... scheduled to begin a FDP in 72 hours ...and scheduling calls .. is that not basically stating a reschedule of my scheduled FDP start via the long call method ... thus requiring me to be able to have a 10 hours rest and possibly 12 hours notification if the FDP operates into the WOCL?
If I am on my dayoff ... scheduled to begin a FDP in 72 hours ...and scheduling calls .. is that not basically stating a reschedule of my scheduled FDP start via the long call method ... thus requiring me to be able to have a 10 hours rest and possibly 12 hours notification if the FDP operates into the WOCL?
01-10-2014, 04:25 PM
#80
New Hire... again.
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Not XJT
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by captscott26
You are highlighting the wrong part. You are ignoring the "determined prospectively" part. How is it "prospective" if the company calls you for a trip and "looks back" to find the legal rest?
I'm a little stunned at some of the grad school-level interpretations in this thread.
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