Aviate opt in
03-02-2023 | 02:47 PM
#22
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Now, if you don't meet the requirements (such as two 121 fails in 5 years, tardy, whatever), your class date is on standby until you do. The only thing that sucks is that it will be reset back to 5 years if you break anything in the APG. However, this 5 year look-back can be waived "under thier discretion".
Its a flow, but not a guaranteed flow like AAWO. it has fine print.
03-04-2023 | 01:01 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 22
From: It's a plane and it's a seat
The "final review" just consists of them seeing if you meet the requirements in the APG. They didn't move on because they didn't meet the requirements.
Now, if you don't meet the requirements (such as two 121 fails in 5 years, tardy, whatever), your class date is on standby until you do. The only thing that sucks is that it will be reset back to 5 years if you break anything in the APG. However, this 5 year look-back can be waived "under thier discretion".
Its a flow, but not a guaranteed flow like AAWO. it has fine print.
Now, if you don't meet the requirements (such as two 121 fails in 5 years, tardy, whatever), your class date is on standby until you do. The only thing that sucks is that it will be reset back to 5 years if you break anything in the APG. However, this 5 year look-back can be waived "under thier discretion".
Its a flow, but not a guaranteed flow like AAWO. it has fine print.
03-04-2023 | 01:49 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
03-05-2023 | 05:22 AM
#26
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 64
Likes: 2
Did the Aviate program change recently? Looks like 1600 PIC/Captain hours now for the transition.
I never read the previous language, but doesn't the statements below from the Aviate Program Guide (https://unitedaviate.com/documents/A...gram-Guide.pdf) mean it's more of a straightforward transition?
From the Aviate Program Guide, "Once all transition criteria have been verified, a summary of the Participant’s flight hours and all
Records Submission Sheets (“RSS”)
received while in Aviate will be reviewed by United’s
Transition Board of Review. If United’s Transition Board of Review determines the Participant
has completed all transition criteria, has maintained the standards as set forth in Chapter 4, and
meets all other requirements and standards set forth in this Chapter 5, as determined by the
Transition Board of Review in their sole discretion, then the Participant will be approved for
transition to United as a First Officer. United’s Aviate administrator will then coordinate with the
Participant for placement in a United First Officer training course."
Finally, some confusing/contradicting language from the program guide about applying through traditional channels when already in Aviate. Again, not sure if it was like this before...The first part says you can apply to United through traditional pilot hiring/off the street, as long as you leave Aviate if you get an interview.
Chapter 3: H. Applying Through the United Traditional Pilot Hiring Process as an Aviate Participant
Participants in Aviate are allowed to apply to United through the traditional pilot hiring process,
provided that such Participants will be required to withdraw from Aviate in the event they are
selected for and schedule a traditional interview with United. See Chapter 5 for additional
information.
However, later in the language below, it talks about leaving the program and waiting 12 months, EXCEPT if applying under Section H of Chapter 3 (language above). Why would they even leave this Chapter 5, section I language in there?
Chapter 5: I. Applying to United via the traditional path if a Participant withdraws from Aviate.
Except for Participants who withdraw from Aviate after scheduling an interview through United’s
traditional pilot hiring process in accordance with Section H of Chapter 3, Participants who have
withdrawn from Aviate may apply via the traditional hiring path after a 12-month wait.
Can anyone clarify the program rules - especially if it changed recently?
Thanks
I never read the previous language, but doesn't the statements below from the Aviate Program Guide (https://unitedaviate.com/documents/A...gram-Guide.pdf) mean it's more of a straightforward transition?
From the Aviate Program Guide, "Once all transition criteria have been verified, a summary of the Participant’s flight hours and all
Records Submission Sheets (“RSS”)
received while in Aviate will be reviewed by United’s
Transition Board of Review. If United’s Transition Board of Review determines the Participant
has completed all transition criteria, has maintained the standards as set forth in Chapter 4, and
meets all other requirements and standards set forth in this Chapter 5, as determined by the
Transition Board of Review in their sole discretion, then the Participant will be approved for
transition to United as a First Officer. United’s Aviate administrator will then coordinate with the
Participant for placement in a United First Officer training course."
Finally, some confusing/contradicting language from the program guide about applying through traditional channels when already in Aviate. Again, not sure if it was like this before...The first part says you can apply to United through traditional pilot hiring/off the street, as long as you leave Aviate if you get an interview.
Chapter 3: H. Applying Through the United Traditional Pilot Hiring Process as an Aviate Participant
Participants in Aviate are allowed to apply to United through the traditional pilot hiring process,
provided that such Participants will be required to withdraw from Aviate in the event they are
selected for and schedule a traditional interview with United. See Chapter 5 for additional
information.
However, later in the language below, it talks about leaving the program and waiting 12 months, EXCEPT if applying under Section H of Chapter 3 (language above). Why would they even leave this Chapter 5, section I language in there?
Chapter 5: I. Applying to United via the traditional path if a Participant withdraws from Aviate.
Except for Participants who withdraw from Aviate after scheduling an interview through United’s
traditional pilot hiring process in accordance with Section H of Chapter 3, Participants who have
withdrawn from Aviate may apply via the traditional hiring path after a 12-month wait.
Can anyone clarify the program rules - especially if it changed recently?
Thanks
03-05-2023 | 06:00 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 254
Likes: 1
Did the Aviate program change recently? Looks like 1600 PIC/Captain hours now for the transition.
I never read the previous language, but doesn't the statements below from the Aviate Program Guide (https://unitedaviate.com/documents/A...gram-Guide.pdf) mean it's more of a straightforward transition?
From the Aviate Program Guide, "Once all transition criteria have been verified, a summary of the Participant’s flight hours and all
Records Submission Sheets (“RSS”)
received while in Aviate will be reviewed by United’s
Transition Board of Review. If United’s Transition Board of Review determines the Participant
has completed all transition criteria, has maintained the standards as set forth in Chapter 4, and
meets all other requirements and standards set forth in this Chapter 5, as determined by the
Transition Board of Review in their sole discretion, then the Participant will be approved for
transition to United as a First Officer. United’s Aviate administrator will then coordinate with the
Participant for placement in a United First Officer training course."
Finally, some confusing/contradicting language from the program guide about applying through traditional channels when already in Aviate. Again, not sure if it was like this before...The first part says you can apply to United through traditional pilot hiring/off the street, as long as you leave Aviate if you get an interview.
Chapter 3: H. Applying Through the United Traditional Pilot Hiring Process as an Aviate Participant
Participants in Aviate are allowed to apply to United through the traditional pilot hiring process,
provided that such Participants will be required to withdraw from Aviate in the event they are
selected for and schedule a traditional interview with United. See Chapter 5 for additional
information.
However, later in the language below, it talks about leaving the program and waiting 12 months, EXCEPT if applying under Section H of Chapter 3 (language above). Why would they even leave this Chapter 5, section I language in there?
Chapter 5: I. Applying to United via the traditional path if a Participant withdraws from Aviate.
Except for Participants who withdraw from Aviate after scheduling an interview through United’s
traditional pilot hiring process in accordance with Section H of Chapter 3, Participants who have
withdrawn from Aviate may apply via the traditional hiring path after a 12-month wait.
Can anyone clarify the program rules - especially if it changed recently?
Thanks
I never read the previous language, but doesn't the statements below from the Aviate Program Guide (https://unitedaviate.com/documents/A...gram-Guide.pdf) mean it's more of a straightforward transition?
From the Aviate Program Guide, "Once all transition criteria have been verified, a summary of the Participant’s flight hours and all
Records Submission Sheets (“RSS”)
received while in Aviate will be reviewed by United’s
Transition Board of Review. If United’s Transition Board of Review determines the Participant
has completed all transition criteria, has maintained the standards as set forth in Chapter 4, and
meets all other requirements and standards set forth in this Chapter 5, as determined by the
Transition Board of Review in their sole discretion, then the Participant will be approved for
transition to United as a First Officer. United’s Aviate administrator will then coordinate with the
Participant for placement in a United First Officer training course."
Finally, some confusing/contradicting language from the program guide about applying through traditional channels when already in Aviate. Again, not sure if it was like this before...The first part says you can apply to United through traditional pilot hiring/off the street, as long as you leave Aviate if you get an interview.
Chapter 3: H. Applying Through the United Traditional Pilot Hiring Process as an Aviate Participant
Participants in Aviate are allowed to apply to United through the traditional pilot hiring process,
provided that such Participants will be required to withdraw from Aviate in the event they are
selected for and schedule a traditional interview with United. See Chapter 5 for additional
information.
However, later in the language below, it talks about leaving the program and waiting 12 months, EXCEPT if applying under Section H of Chapter 3 (language above). Why would they even leave this Chapter 5, section I language in there?
Chapter 5: I. Applying to United via the traditional path if a Participant withdraws from Aviate.
Except for Participants who withdraw from Aviate after scheduling an interview through United’s
traditional pilot hiring process in accordance with Section H of Chapter 3, Participants who have
withdrawn from Aviate may apply via the traditional hiring path after a 12-month wait.
Can anyone clarify the program rules - especially if it changed recently?
Thanks
New rules, simplified:
If you were not already in Aviate, you need to have 1600 PIC. Once you hit your hours, you flow within 4 months.
If you're already in Aviate or your hire date at a UAX carrier is before 3/1/23, you can use part of the old terms, which is 1500 UAX time, of which 500 is PIC. The other way of qualifying via 2000 hours of SIC (not upgrading) is no longer valid unless you were due to flow in the next 3 months.
Allowed no more than 1 121/135 training failure within the preceding 5 years. Failure during captain upgrade does not count. UAX carriers had issues with FOs not upgrading because they didn't want to risk a training failure and between the convenience of picking your own schedule as a senior FO and not having to sit reserve for a while, it was probably a wash between flowing with 2000 SIC and upgrading to do 500 PIC.
If you get invited to Aviate and turn it down, you're permanently ineligible. If you leave Aviate, you're not eligible to apply to United for 12 months.
The three biggest takeaways IMO are these:
Incentivizes DECs because they would flow faster (1600 hours and out, rather than having to wait their turn as every FO senior to them flows first like the AA and DL flows)
Forces senior FOs to upgrade
Provides a more concrete flow time estimate because it's no longer "get your hours and we will call you when it's your turn"
03-05-2023 | 07:32 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
I think this is going to blow up in United’s face. It’s an attempt to save the regionals since there is a shortage of captains and really nothing more. People aren’t going to choose to stay and upgrade when they can just go somewhere else- another carrier, a giant bonus as a DEC somewhere else..especially when they could sit around all that time and not even “flow” in the end anyway. I for one won’t be waiting. I’ll just go somewhere else and then if I decide to apply to United off the street later-which I won’t because why give up seniority where I already am- I’ll just do that. Certainly not going to wait 12 months to even get an interview just because you were in aviate when you could be working at another carrier all that time-which again you won’t be sacrificing the seniority to move to United. Interesting move on their part.
03-05-2023 | 09:10 AM
#29
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 64
Likes: 2
New rules, simplified:
If you were not already in Aviate, you need to have 1600 PIC. Once you hit your hours, you flow within 4 months.
If you're already in Aviate or your hire date at a UAX carrier is before 3/1/23, you can use part of the old terms, which is 1500 UAX time, of which 500 is PIC. The other way of qualifying via 2000 hours of SIC (not upgrading) is no longer valid unless you were due to flow in the next 3 months.
Allowed no more than 1 121/135 training failure within the preceding 5 years. Failure during captain upgrade does not count. UAX carriers had issues with FOs not upgrading because they didn't want to risk a training failure and between the convenience of picking your own schedule as a senior FO and not having to sit reserve for a while, it was probably a wash between flowing with 2000 SIC and upgrading to do 500 PIC.
If you get invited to Aviate and turn it down, you're permanently ineligible. If you leave Aviate, you're not eligible to apply to United for 12 months.
The three biggest takeaways IMO are these:
Incentivizes DECs because they would flow faster (1600 hours and out, rather than having to wait their turn as every FO senior to them flows first like the AA and DL flows)
Forces senior FOs to upgrade
Provides a more concrete flow time estimate because it's no longer "get your hours and we will call you when it's your turn"
If you were not already in Aviate, you need to have 1600 PIC. Once you hit your hours, you flow within 4 months.
If you're already in Aviate or your hire date at a UAX carrier is before 3/1/23, you can use part of the old terms, which is 1500 UAX time, of which 500 is PIC. The other way of qualifying via 2000 hours of SIC (not upgrading) is no longer valid unless you were due to flow in the next 3 months.
Allowed no more than 1 121/135 training failure within the preceding 5 years. Failure during captain upgrade does not count. UAX carriers had issues with FOs not upgrading because they didn't want to risk a training failure and between the convenience of picking your own schedule as a senior FO and not having to sit reserve for a while, it was probably a wash between flowing with 2000 SIC and upgrading to do 500 PIC.
If you get invited to Aviate and turn it down, you're permanently ineligible. If you leave Aviate, you're not eligible to apply to United for 12 months.
The three biggest takeaways IMO are these:
Incentivizes DECs because they would flow faster (1600 hours and out, rather than having to wait their turn as every FO senior to them flows first like the AA and DL flows)
Forces senior FOs to upgrade
Provides a more concrete flow time estimate because it's no longer "get your hours and we will call you when it's your turn"
What about the paragraph regarding applying to United outside of Aviate (off the street) when you're enrolled in Aviate? Am I correct that someone can apply to United via normal website application, who is already in Aviate, as long as they leave Aviate if offered/scheduled a United interview? If you're offered an interview, obviously the 12 month wait would not apply. Not sure if this is part of the Aviate update or I never looked closely enough at the program documentation...
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