Mesa
12-26-2013 | 03:30 PM
#1052
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
^^^^ This.
warning (schizophrenic post) And it will make Prior121 mad cause it shouldn't be in the Mesa thread - but free country so here goes!
Isn't it true we're basically all in a competing frenzy for the new AA feed?
Won't it be in the best interest of the new AA to diversify that feed across many operators?
I'm feeling bad for Eagle right now.
Is it really impossible to make a profit with the current AE cost structure? Or is it just that the availability of the rest of us low cost alternatives make it stupid to try?
Somehow I'd feel better about the state of the regional industry if someone could prove to me in black and white that it really isn't viable to treat us any better.
I flew with a guy who explained to me (granted this is an oversimplification) that even big RJ's don't generate enough revenue to pay regional pilots more. The reason mainline guys make more is because their planes are bigger and bring a lot more revenue. And you can't simply raise ticket prices, because they're tested to the tipping point anyway. Charge 1 dollar more and the loads drop. We're where we are because that's what the market bares period. AE's cost structure is out of line and not viable. That was his assertion, not mine, but I have to admit, he almost convinced me. Almost
Anyone else buying this?
I think it sucks that they are getting squeezed knowing the flying goes to all the cheapies if they don't fold.
warning (schizophrenic post) And it will make Prior121 mad cause it shouldn't be in the Mesa thread - but free country so here goes!
Isn't it true we're basically all in a competing frenzy for the new AA feed?
Won't it be in the best interest of the new AA to diversify that feed across many operators?
I'm feeling bad for Eagle right now.
Is it really impossible to make a profit with the current AE cost structure? Or is it just that the availability of the rest of us low cost alternatives make it stupid to try?
Somehow I'd feel better about the state of the regional industry if someone could prove to me in black and white that it really isn't viable to treat us any better.
I flew with a guy who explained to me (granted this is an oversimplification) that even big RJ's don't generate enough revenue to pay regional pilots more. The reason mainline guys make more is because their planes are bigger and bring a lot more revenue. And you can't simply raise ticket prices, because they're tested to the tipping point anyway. Charge 1 dollar more and the loads drop. We're where we are because that's what the market bares period. AE's cost structure is out of line and not viable. That was his assertion, not mine, but I have to admit, he almost convinced me. Almost
Anyone else buying this? I think it sucks that they are getting squeezed knowing the flying goes to all the cheapies if they don't fold.
12-26-2013 | 06:36 PM
#1053
Banned
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
From: South Paw
^^^^ This.
warning (schizophrenic post) And it will make Prior121 mad cause it shouldn't be in the Mesa thread - but free country so here goes!
Isn't it true we're basically all in a competing frenzy for the new AA feed?
Won't it be in the best interest of the new AA to diversify that feed across many operators?
I'm feeling bad for Eagle right now.
Is it really impossible to make a profit with the current AE cost structure? Or is it just that the availability of the rest of us low cost alternatives make it stupid to try?
Somehow I'd feel better about the state of the regional industry if someone could prove to me in black and white that it really isn't viable to treat us any better.
I flew with a guy who explained to me (granted this is an oversimplification) that even big RJ's don't generate enough revenue to pay regional pilots more. The reason mainline guys make more is because their planes are bigger and bring a lot more revenue. And you can't simply raise ticket prices, because they're tested to the tipping point anyway. Charge 1 dollar more and the loads drop. We're where we are because that's what the market bares period. AE's cost structure is out of line and not viable. That was his assertion, not mine, but I have to admit, he almost convinced me. Almost Anyone else buying this?
I think it sucks that they are getting squeezed knowing the flying goes to all the cheapies if they don't fold.
warning (schizophrenic post) And it will make Prior121 mad cause it shouldn't be in the Mesa thread - but free country so here goes!
Isn't it true we're basically all in a competing frenzy for the new AA feed?
Won't it be in the best interest of the new AA to diversify that feed across many operators?
I'm feeling bad for Eagle right now.
Is it really impossible to make a profit with the current AE cost structure? Or is it just that the availability of the rest of us low cost alternatives make it stupid to try?
Somehow I'd feel better about the state of the regional industry if someone could prove to me in black and white that it really isn't viable to treat us any better.
I flew with a guy who explained to me (granted this is an oversimplification) that even big RJ's don't generate enough revenue to pay regional pilots more. The reason mainline guys make more is because their planes are bigger and bring a lot more revenue. And you can't simply raise ticket prices, because they're tested to the tipping point anyway. Charge 1 dollar more and the loads drop. We're where we are because that's what the market bares period. AE's cost structure is out of line and not viable. That was his assertion, not mine, but I have to admit, he almost convinced me. Almost
Anyone else buying this? I think it sucks that they are getting squeezed knowing the flying goes to all the cheapies if they don't fold.
12-26-2013 | 07:16 PM
#1054
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
Your post is correct. There are a few things that can be done to raise wages but cannot get into it right now (morning show). For one, lower the disparity between Captain pay and FO's at the regional level. Senior Captains will cry bull**** but when you look at the wage gap it's ridiculous.
You want to know what's "ridiculous"? The "wage gap" between anyone in airline upper management, and any flight crew member!
I always love the sellouts that want to lower the pay for ANY regional pilot... The only direction any pilots pay at any regional should be going is up!
12-26-2013 | 08:15 PM
#1055
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Your post is correct. There are a few things that can be done to raise wages but cannot get into it right now (morning show). For one, lower the disparity between Captain pay and FO's at the regional level. Senior Captains will cry bull**** but when you look at the wage gap it's ridiculous.
You want to know what's "ridiculous"? The "wage gap" between anyone in airline upper management, and any flight crew member!
I always love the sellouts that want to lower the pay for ANY regional pilot... The only direction any pilots pay at any regional should be going is up!
I always love the sellouts that want to lower the pay for ANY regional pilot... The only direction any pilots pay at any regional should be going is up!
Senior regional captains make over five times more than a first year FO. This doesn't make sense to me. We're blue collar machine operators. Our job is in the same category as police, firemen, nurses, skilled trades, yet I constantly read comparisons to professions with much higher barriers to entry. Yes, regional pilots should be paid more, but the top of our pay scales have been distorted by the union. Anyone can easily figure this out with a little research and comparison.
Anyway, this conversation is going on in another thread so...how bout Mesa?
12-26-2013 | 08:33 PM
#1056
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
From: 175 Left
Quote:
Originally Posted by skillett
Your post is correct. There are a few things that can be done to raise wages but cannot get into it right now (morning show). For one, lower the disparity between Captain pay and FO's at the regional level. Senior Captains will cry bull**** but when you look at the wage gap it's ridiculous.
Totally agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paid2fly
You want to know what's "ridiculous"? The "wage gap" between anyone in airline upper management, and any flight crew member!
I always love the sellouts that want to lower the pay for ANY regional pilot... The only direction any pilots pay at any regional should be going is up!
The compensation of regional airline upper management matches what the C-suite in similarly sized companies is paid. This isn't "greedy airline CEO", it's a standard that, unfortunately, keeps rising. Our airlines are run so lean, that one tier down from the board room one would probably find salaries to be much lower than in other industries.
Senior regional captains make over five times more than a first year FO. This doesn't make sense to me. We're blue collar machine operators. Our job is in the same category as police, firemen, nurses, skilled trades, yet I constantly read comparisons to professions with much higher barriers to entry. Yes, regional pilots should be paid more, but the top of our pay scales have been distorted by the union. Anyone can easily figure this out with a little research and comparison.
Anyway, this conversation is going on in another thread so...how bout Mesa?
Originally Posted by skillett
Your post is correct. There are a few things that can be done to raise wages but cannot get into it right now (morning show). For one, lower the disparity between Captain pay and FO's at the regional level. Senior Captains will cry bull**** but when you look at the wage gap it's ridiculous.
Totally agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paid2fly
You want to know what's "ridiculous"? The "wage gap" between anyone in airline upper management, and any flight crew member!
I always love the sellouts that want to lower the pay for ANY regional pilot... The only direction any pilots pay at any regional should be going is up!
The compensation of regional airline upper management matches what the C-suite in similarly sized companies is paid. This isn't "greedy airline CEO", it's a standard that, unfortunately, keeps rising. Our airlines are run so lean, that one tier down from the board room one would probably find salaries to be much lower than in other industries.
Senior regional captains make over five times more than a first year FO. This doesn't make sense to me. We're blue collar machine operators. Our job is in the same category as police, firemen, nurses, skilled trades, yet I constantly read comparisons to professions with much higher barriers to entry. Yes, regional pilots should be paid more, but the top of our pay scales have been distorted by the union. Anyone can easily figure this out with a little research and comparison.
Anyway, this conversation is going on in another thread so...how bout Mesa?
I also will add, the CEOs are running this company. We show up, fly the plane and go home. We have an easy job.
As someone who's father is the CEO of a large company, it's not all a "bed roses" running a company such as an airline. It's a whole different world answering to shareholders and being responsible for hundreds or thousands of employees.
12-26-2013 | 08:59 PM
#1057
Banned
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
From: South Paw
Until people stop signing up to be an airline pilot starting at the regional level pay will not go up. Now that I have been downgraded, I now understand how tuff it is financially being on the road. I agree that pilot pay should never come down. Just saying the disparity is high between a regional FO and a CA. Whether I'm in the left or right seat. I would vote for higher pay for FO's over a raise for me or more airframes promised. You sell out every time you go to work for a regional. With the hopes of a better future.
Last edited by skillett; 12-26-2013 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Not finished
12-26-2013 | 09:14 PM
#1058
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,164
Likes: 90
From: Volleyball Player
Until people stop signing up to be an airline pilot starting at the regional level pay will not go up. Now that I have been downgraded, I now understand how tuff it is financially being on the road. I agree that pilot pay should never come down. Just saying the disparity is high between a regional FO and a CA. Whether I'm in the left or right seat. I would vote for higher pay for FO's over a raise for me or more airframes promised. You sell out every time you go to work for a regional. With the hopes of a better future.
12-26-2013 | 09:20 PM
#1059
Banned
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
From: South Paw
As far as Mesa goes. We are too fat on FO's until more airframes arrive and attrition picks up.
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