milehighskyline

24 yo m with 2200 total time. ATP 700 multi, 1000 ish PIC. 135 experience and 121 experience in E 175 Left flying to work in the Texas oil fields that are now laying off so going back to flying and insist on sticking with it. Grass is not greener always outside the cockpit ( Job security with oil prices) Looking at PSA MESA Republic or Ameriflight. Only advantage with Ameriflight is I qualify for Left seat positions and can earn pic turbine experience quicker than 121. Out of those 4 who would you pick? Thanks

RV5M

Sure enough, it works in Safari.

Duct Mon

I'm with you on this but sometimes it's hard to ignore their moronic views of Mesa. Although some of their rhetoric can be fact based it has no place on the Mesa thread and never solves any of our pilot group problems.

24/48

Awesome display of douchebagery!

Not sure how long you have been in the industry, but yes it is a little known fact that historically when gains were made by others through collective bargaining that the Skywest student council would "negotiate" and deliver something very similar to what the unionized carriers negotiated.

As to my conclusions as reflected in your "analysis", I don't ever recall championing the Mesa contract as a pillar of regional contracts. What I have noted is that the Mesa pilots have had to waste a lot of negotiating capitol fighting JO....Freedom Air comes to mind. They've also been through bankruptcy recently, and are currently operating under a bankruptcy agreement.

So your "analysis" is false as I was talking about ALL unionized regionals, and without ALL unionized carriers' collective efforts I would argue Skywest wouldn't have some of the things that they do in their handbook.

Again, you make it sound as though Mesa is the scourge of the earth. They are most certainly on the lower end for regionals for reasons I've pointed out ad nauseum, but the gap between the lower and upper is thin.

24/48

Really?!?!

Skywest: I see a lot of folks complaining about QOL, poor pairing construction, horrible schedulers, and so on. In fact, I saw a post on the Skywest thread talking about the senior guys with 15+ years getting 11-12 day off lines, awesome!

Air Whiskey: I know many at AWAC and yes they have a good deal. It doesn't change the fact that they don't have a base in IAH, and it just isn't worth it to commute for 20 something bucks an hour.

Horizon: Great place, great pay, etc. They are also all props based in the Pacific northwest or AK. Even at $40/hr vs. $29/hr at 2nd year pay it's not worth the commute.

ASA/XJT: And this was choice number 1, however, during the "Welcome to Expressjet" presentation some 2 days after the announcement that they were losing 102 ERJ's the mood was a bit sour. Base in IAH shrinking, pilot moral in the toilet as they get whipsawed by Skywest Inc., parking airplanes or transferring them to TSA. Yeah, no thanks.

Either way, the pay and benefits are just about the same across the board at the regionals with a few exceptions. Still nothing worth commuting to get. And even those with something a little better, it's really just whipped cream on $hit. And by the way, I was at ASA for 6 years and remember the "stellar" bennies we had.

24/48

Mesa if you live in Texas.

CBreezy

I don't care if you don't like what I have to say. I'm not out here attacking people who work for Mesa or trying to deprive them of their way of life. I have friends who fly for Mesa. There is no ill-will toward them. If you take what I have to say as a personal attack, then you ARE lacking reading comprehension skills.

I am well aware of the plight of Mesa. I know they have struggled with their upper management and gone through some turbulent times. If the pilots of Mesa TRULY wanted to improve their conditions, they would do far less cheerleading about how great Mesa is. That's all I ever point out. They have more negotiating capital right now than they've ever have. They don't need to slander or to picket the front door. It would be nice for some of the people who actually work at Mesa on this board to call out the people who claim that Mesa is a great place to work.

As far as your point regarding the difference between the best and the worst conditions, I disagree. While compared to a major airline contract, $9-12 an hour is nothing, there are MAJOR differences between a place like Mesa, a place like TSA, and a place like Air Wisconsin. I don't have time to run the numbers, but in compensation alone, you're looking at a possible disparity of up to $7-$12k a year. When you're only making $20-$30k, that is a statistically significant number. When you take into considering health care, disability, scheduling, retirement, and possible other soft pays, that disparity grows much much larger.

While there are growth opporunities and thus upgrade opportunities at a place like Mesa, people still need to prepare to be at a place for a minimum of 4-6 years before they get the opportunity to move to a major airline. There are outliers but I'd bet the average stay at a regional in the next 5 years will not get as low as 8 years.

Finally, with regard to unions. I know this is a hot topic. I think there are both positives and negatives to union membership in the current political enviroment. Union membership under the RLA and representation by the same organization as the people we subcontract for makes union membership almost as worthwhile as not having one at all.

24/48

Just because it hasn't happened in the last few years doesn't mean that it didn't ever happen. I would argue that most of the language in the Skywest handbook was picked out of the ACA contract and CMR contract negotiated before 9/11. Skywest didn't take concessions because the head shed in SGU wanted to keep the masses happy. SGU also knew that if they forced concessions down on Skywest that another union drive would emerge, and may actually pass.

24/48

I take nothing on here personally, but you're comprehension comments come across as douchie, and I'm quite certain that if we were having this conversation in person that you would withhold these types of comments.

What regional, Mesa or otherwise, has any sort of leverage right now? I'm sorry but the outsourced block hour allotments made by majors is shrinking, it's a tough market for regionals. Sorry, but regionals have very little leverage because of the portfolio of carriers the majors use. PSA, PDT, and ENY are good examples of that.

I'm not disagreeing with you, it's appalling! My point is that for many to get on with a major they have to go the regional route so pick your poison, or find another field. The reality of it sucks. Hell, I'm still paying off debt from my regional days.

That's a good conservative plan. So then the individual needs to list pros and cons of where to work. Are benefits important?, Commute or not commute?, Pay?, etc. Each individual is different with different circumstances. I would contend that QOL is most important, and having to commute severely degrades that. So, is the commute worth the extra $$$? If you're young, no wife or kids then you're mobile with a small budget. If you're older, and have more responsibilities, then you're not as mobile and you have to go for what works best for you, and it's not always about $$$.

I can understand that. It has been my position for some time now that ALPA needs a re-structuring. It still doesn't change the history that Skywest has benefitted from the collective bargaining done by others. It also doesn't change the reality that by unionizing, and in particular ALPA, that the Skywest pilots would remove the whipsaw that has caused the decline at ASA/XJT.

prior121

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