I'm still a little confused on one point - I was a T-1 IP, and when two IPs flew together, we would split the flight time 50% Primary and 50% IP each. But only one was the A code, so how could the other one count his IP time as PIC for the airlines?

 

Look at the FARs. The instructor is the PIC, even if someone else signed for it.

For example, when we do IUT events in the E-6, the IUT generally signs for the aircraft and the instructor judges from the jump seat. Two people are logging PIC. It's kosher, just like a safety pilot and a pilot under the hood logging PIC.

 

How big is your conscience and how much integrity do you have?

When I started as a Tweet IP as an O-3 in 1999, I went by experience and rank, when flying CT. If I outranked the guy I was flying with, but was still inexperienced, then I put it as dual received in my personal logbook. Once I became experienced, I took PIC even if the inexperienced guy outranked me such as on a MQT sortie. Most time I now go simply by rank. Now I rarely fly with anyone who outranks me, so it is all PIC in my personal log, even though I may have given the youngster on AD all of the IP time on the 781 to help their career totals.

Without a personal logbook, and unless two of you are going through the interview on the same day with personal logbooks, no one will ever know how you derived your totals or with whom you flew. It ain't on the HARM products.

 

Best guess percentage. I called 90% of my T-37B primary time PIC and 100% of my IP time. So did everyone I flew Tweets with who is now at a major.

 

Majors are pretty clear on their definition of PIC time.

PIC = Pilot who signed for the aircraft.

 

Don't disagree with you. When I flew the Tweet, no one signed for the aircraft. We went to the desk and go the tail. I think the DO signed the days orders. More to the point, I didn't keep a logbook/record, I have no idea who I flew with when. My conscience is clear with what I define as a reasonable guess.

My peers/friends now at majors tell me my logic is ok and worked for them.

 

audioflyer, and any other USAF bros reading this. Help yourself out, never split IP time on a sortie. Every sortie you fly you should log either IP or Primary. Don't split time. In the airline and FAAs eyes only 1 person is the PIC, that is that. So, if you have a whole bunch of sorties that you dual logged IP time and primary time here is my advice...

When you start calculating your PIC time for an ATP or for an airline application (this applies to your CT/ID sorties) take credit for PIC time on half of those split time sorties. For example, if you have 10 sorties on which you dual logged IP and primary time, take credit for 5 of those sorties total time as IP (PIC).

If in an airline interview, they start digging through your flight records and start asking you about sortie X, "On this sortie you logged IP time AND primary time, so who was the PIC?" Your reply, "The AF allows us to dual log IP time and primary time on our continuation training sorties. So, I counted only half of my CT sorties total time as PIC. On some sorties I was the PIC, on some sorties I wasn't. So, I took the conservative route and counted only half of my CT sorties as PIC." That should end any questioning.

I interviewed at AirTran, SouthWest and Delta. This scenario never happened to me. I have heard stories in the old days of American and United asking these kind of questions though.

 

Good discussion

 

used this site alot over 10 yrs and good info

 

So here is a good question. When logging sim time in a level D C-17 simulator would it be wrong to log this as flight time? Im hearing alot of different schools of thought on this even in my own Squadron.