USAF Flight Time
05-11-2013 | 07:32 AM
#31
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From: missionary
Bingo. If you sign for the jet whether you are in the seat or not, you are a required pilot and it is part 1 PIC time. This has been discussed many times and is cut and dry. That is what airlines are looking for when they are asking for PIC time, not time in the seat. Otherwise, you are saying during that "bunk time" there is no PIC since the two pilots flying didn't sign for it.
The logbook conversion should be easy. All time that you signed for the jet or instructed is PIC. All flight time in the seat when you didn't sign or instruct is SIC. "Other" or "special crew" time only counts if you are the aircraft commander. Do not count it if you aren't.
It just comes down to the fact that the military logs time different than the airlines. I don't do block times or conversion factors since each airline adds their own factor for that. I just count the number of legs in the flight and put it in a separate column so that I can fill that out on the application. Ie, the UAL and Delta apps ask the number of flights as PIC. If you did a out/in or full stop taxi back to pick up pax somewhere, it is two legs and you will get credit for each one. Some of my flights are 3 or more legs. I put the number of legs and ICAOs in my remarks column.
The logbook conversion should be easy. All time that you signed for the jet or instructed is PIC. All flight time in the seat when you didn't sign or instruct is SIC. "Other" or "special crew" time only counts if you are the aircraft commander. Do not count it if you aren't.
It just comes down to the fact that the military logs time different than the airlines. I don't do block times or conversion factors since each airline adds their own factor for that. I just count the number of legs in the flight and put it in a separate column so that I can fill that out on the application. Ie, the UAL and Delta apps ask the number of flights as PIC. If you did a out/in or full stop taxi back to pick up pax somewhere, it is two legs and you will get credit for each one. Some of my flights are 3 or more legs. I put the number of legs and ICAOs in my remarks column.
05-11-2013 | 07:07 PM
#32
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I got it now. "Other" can fill in gaps where I wasn't in seat for either AC time or IP/EP time. One other question: Does anyone log cross country time in the military or does it not matter? I would think that any time I take off from homeplate and land elsewhere can be be considered ccx.
05-11-2013 | 07:40 PM
#33
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From: B737
"(vii) For a military pilot who qualifies for a commercial pilot certificate (except with a rotorcraft category rating) under §61.73 of this part, time acquired during a flight—
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That is at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(C) That involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage, electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation systems."
Short story, you don't have to land at another field. Merely navigating more than 50 nm away from home plate satisfies the definition.
Also, FWIW I use an excel spreadsheet where I entered in all my mil time and broke it down into student (dual), SIC and PIC, as well as IP time. I counted EP time as IP time. Any sortie where I was logging Other time I figured I was not the AC and logged SIC. I have a separate column for sortie counts, and that helps a ton in answering some of the questions on apps.
05-11-2013 | 08:17 PM
#34
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From: missionary
But no, no one in my interviews ever paid attention to the "X-Country" column.
05-11-2013 | 08:22 PM
#35
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From: Retired AF/A320 FO
I stopped keeping a log book 15 years ago...For sorties I used a ratio of each of my SIC/PIC/Instructor time over my total time to divide up my mil sorties accordingly. I also just WAGged my cross country time at about 80-90% of my total non student time. I've gone back and forth on other time but will probably eliminate it from my calculations since I can meet the minimums without it. Good discussion.
05-11-2013 | 08:23 PM
#36
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From: missionary
05-11-2013 | 08:24 PM
#37
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From: Legacy FO
Bingo. If you sign for the jet whether you are in the seat or not, you are a required pilot and it is part 1 PIC time. This has been discussed many times and is cut and dry. That is what airlines are looking for when they are asking for PIC time, not time in the seat. Otherwise, you are saying during that "bunk time" there is no PIC since the two pilots flying didn't sign for it.
2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.
I'm asking a question, not throwing spears. This is why I was conservative and avoided this pitfall all together.
Are you willing to follow their instructions or argue your case in the interview room?
05-11-2013 | 08:36 PM
#38
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From: B737
Many places won't count Other time (see above). Also, I can't recall any time logging Other while the A code. That may be common for aircraft that cross the pond a lot, but in the Herk world, I'm either in the seat or standing logging IP/EP time.
05-12-2013 | 12:05 AM
#40
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From: missionary
In a perfect world, I agree with what you wrote. See next comment.
I completely agree with you. However, how are you going to calculate your flying time when the application or website says the following:
2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.
I'm asking a question, not throwing spears. This is why I was conservative and avoided this pitfall all together.
Are you willing to follow their instructions or argue your case in the interview room?
I completely agree with you. However, how are you going to calculate your flying time when the application or website says the following:
2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.
I'm asking a question, not throwing spears. This is why I was conservative and avoided this pitfall all together.
Are you willing to follow their instructions or argue your case in the interview room?
But I've thought about it, and I noticed Southwest doesn't describe herein how to handle USAF "Secondary" Time. It's been a while, but as I recall, it was Primary, Secondary, and Other.
So they leave some room for interpretation. Yes, you are being conservative and safe, and there is no way they could question you. But I'm just wondering if maybe you're being too conservative. We all know how hard it is to get Turbine PIC.
I would feel 100% confident explaining my position to a Southwest interviewer.
If you didn't BOLD that last remark for me, I would have just read it normally and not thought twice, and had ZERO reservations about counting ALL Other Time as PIC if I'm A/I/E.
That IS how I did it for Northwest Airlines and UPS Airlines.
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