I agree that it isn't flight time, but "other" time as the Aircraft Commander is still Part 1 PIC time and should be counted as such in any logbook where you are converting your military time.

There are many ways to skin this cat...as long as you can intelligently explain it during your logbook review, you should be good.

 

HR: Why did you include USAF other time when you were instructed not to?

 

I have beat this one to death, so I will let it rest after this post as I guess not everyone is going to agree. In my Navy logbook, there is a column for "Special Crew Time", which is all the time on the jet not spent in a pilot seat, and there is another column for "Aircraft Commander" time.
I have been instructed by multiple FDX and SWA ex-Navy guys to count all my "Aircraft Commander" time as PIC time for hiring purposes. All other flight time at the controls, whether "First Pilot" or "Second Pilot" is SIC time because you were not signing for the flight.
There are also multiple FAA FAR rulings by their chief counsel that state that the designated PIC in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot may log PIC time for the duration of the flight.
I get the thing about not using "other" time, and honestly think it is to prevent people from using Nav or FE time to meet the hours requirement.
I have never heard of using a percentage of your flight time to come up with your PIC time and that makes no sense to me, but if it is an accepted practice, then go with that. I am going to go with the method that dudes have been hired with at the majors that I am applying for. It apparently worked for them.

 

When you sign for the jet, it's all PIC time, whether you are asleep, eating, or on the throne.

We went through this discussing augmented crews on long haul flights. When the CA is on his break, it's still his jet, and the FB in his seat does not get to log PIC time.

 

Unless someone on the plane has a J-code...

Apparently, that isn't used in all communities the way it's supposed to be.


I didn't keep a personal log book and wish I had. During the great swap from bubble sheets to Oracle in '97-98 or so for ARMS, I'm certain I lost a bunch of time. I have no way to prove it. I have huge gaps in my time that ARMS could not account for. I've got no one to blame but myself.

Regardless, when it came time, I did what my buds at FDX & SWA told me to do: throw away all other time and use a reasonable percentage of everything else. Be able to defend it reasonably and simply. I did and I can.

 

Here's a quick explanation why ... The USN and USAF have different log books. This thread was about USAF flying time. The USAF does not calculate PIC or SIC time in the official logbooks. They also have "other" time calculated in log books and some airlines specifically state not to include it.

 

I'm not trying to bust anybody's chops over this, and I'm just trying to help. I'd like to see everybody get hired at their airline of choice, whether they be Air Force, Navy, Marines or civilians.

I think a lot of the confusion stems from what the FAA says and what the airlines want.
The FAA is not hiring you, the airline is, and they can put any stipulation in place that they want. The CFRs say you can log PIC as "sole manipulator of the controls." The airlines don't want you to use that definition. So, according to the FAA, you may have "PIC" time as a copilot because you are flying the plane, but the airlines don't want you to use that for their application.

Likewise, I think we all understand and agree that if you are the Aircraft Commander, then you are responsible for the jet the entire time, and can log PIC for the entire time, whether you were in one of the seats or in the bunk taking a rest. The problem is some airlines (SWA being one of them) don't want you to use that time in your calculations.
This is horrible advice.

You are going to walk into your interview with the best explanation on how the CFRs allow you to log PIC when you are in the bunk, but the fact of the matter is, that you didn't follow their directions and no amount of "Dash-one" lawyer-ing is going to get you that job when they determine that you were either (1) dishonest on your application or (2) too stupid to follow their directions. I'll tell you... you "won't be good."

I don't understand the "Special Crew Time" and if you are saying you are going to use this as part of your PIC time, but this is what FedEx has to say about it.


I don't doubt your buddies are trying to help you out, but if they haven't been hired in the past few years, things have changed at FedEx. There's a whole new hiring process in place. Before you take their word for it, I'd make sure you have the most up-to-date information.
The reason that people use a percentage of their PIC time to put on an application is this: In the Air Force, when you are a new Aircraft Commander, you will usually be flying with a copilot, and truly be the PIC. But there will be a certain percentage of the time that you will be flying with either an Instructor Pilot or another, maybe more experienced Aircraft Commander. In these cases, although you have been checked out as an AC, you may not be the PIC of record on that flight. Interviewers know (especially the Air Force ones) know that there was probably no way you were the PIC for every hour after your Aircraft Commander checkride. Unless you keep all the flight records (like some people on here indicate they do) showing who was the PIC on that flight, most people take a percentage of their PIC and lop it off to account for those times after their Aircraft Commander checkride when they flew and were not really the PIC.

That's all I got for this topic. Good luck to you all.

 

There is a lot of standardization problems when it comes to calculating flying times across the USAF communities. AFI11-401 isn't a hard read, but some communities really screw it up.

I kept a separate personal log and I can't tell you how many times the HARMs office screwed up my flying time. Not joking, almost every other flight had issues. Sometimes they failed to log an entire trip worth of flying time. Sometimes they entered the same mission two or three times on the same day.

 

Yes, OK IMO.

 

As a C-17 guy this whole "other time" thing is killing me. Since my AC cert I'll say I probably flew a half dozen times where I was not the A Code which even being on the very conservative side would add up to about 75 total hrs... and about 30 of those hrs was when we had a brand new AC that the Commander wanted an IP with on his first A code mission down range. The rest were locals with more than one IP getting currency so they just picked one for the A Code. At my last Squadron my DO (who flew up to Commander) was very big on dividing up hours equally on our flights... as stated earlier that is pretty standard in the C-17. What's killing me is that for 4 years at that Squadron I'd typically go out with 2 new co-pilots flying 60 hrs and end up logging 20 hrs of "other time"!!! That gave me about 400 hrs of other time! I was late rated to pilot (prior Nav) so I'm not a 4000-5000 hr guy like a lot of C-17/C-5 guys so just throwing 400 hrs of other time since AC in the trash hurts! I certainly don't want to look like I'm speeding and am fine using a 90/10% method on my total time since AC... just worried that someone in an interview my think I'm trying to cook the books. I wasn't planning on SWA and would rather fly passengers than cargo (no offense to our FedEx/UPS, etc brothers out there) who seem to have the strict "no other time" policy. Any suggestions?